From mw-raves-return-34021-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 01 07:47:04 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] A dead scene??

My apartment, DJ. Micro, and dont forget the candy...

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From mw-raves-return-34022-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 01 17:00:39 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] A dead scene??

ok..

  I got this idea.. If we all pool our money we can get Britney spears and 
N'sync, and I guarantee that we will make our money back, especially if we 
can get some backstage video of britney showering and shit..

  ANyone else like this idea??

(0_o)

>From: "Rich G" <rikishi62@hotmail.com>
>To: Liquidance101@aol.com, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>CC: stl-raves@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [mw] A dead scene??
>Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 01:46:55 -0600
>
>My apartment, DJ. Micro, and dont forget the candy...
>
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From mw-raves-return-34023-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 01 22:02:21 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] A dead scene??

Hmmm....Britney, showering to some jungle....maybe...

Beautiful raver girlies dancing to jungle....Much better!!!!

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From mw-raves-return-34024-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 02 20:35:28 2003
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From: "Krueger, Jennifer L." <jlkrueger@dmacc.edu>
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Subject: [mw] Iowa raves

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Hey, I attended my first rave last summer on my 20th b-day. June 15. It
was an AMAZING experience. So this year I want to celebrate my
anniversary. Anyone know of something good in Iowa in the month of
June?? Also, did anyone go to Crop Circles 2 in Ames, Iowa? I had a
blast there and ODI was simply awesome.

=20

:-) Jen :-)


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From mw-raves-return-34025-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 02 20:57:29 2003
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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:57:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Naomi <anti_n0mi@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [mw] Iowa raves

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join ia-raves@yahoogroups.com
 
also there is an event this weekend (june 7th)  
 
Naomi-
 
 
 
Saturday June 7th 2003 ~ 9pm-6:00am
Central Iowa Area (call infoline day of event for directions to venue)

Subconscious Collective & the Iowa Rave Liberation Front present:

Awaken Osiris
----------------------
Son of Ra, Husband to Isis, brother of Set, Father to Horus...
Join us June 7th as we summon the almighty ancient Egyptian God of 
the Dead & Ruler of the Underworld

Techno Shaman High Priests conducting the ceremony include:
-----------------------------------------------------
Starscream
a.k.a. #0 from Slipknot - S.P.C.
Jungle - Des Moines IA

Tony Markham
Storytellaz
House - Kansas City

DJ Storm
P.T.L.F.
Goa Trance - Milwaukee WI

Abraham Jensen
I.R.L.F.
Tekno - Elkompton WI

e´manda´
Cheer Squad - Subconscious Collective
House - Minneapolis MN

Photovore09
Cheer Squad - Subconscious Collective
GhettoTech - Minneapolis MN

D3F1LE
Subconscious Collective
Jungle - Ames IA

Reaktor & still:borne
Subconscious Collective/slave.01 studios
Hardcore/Breakore - unknown


$12 at the door
$10 w/ canned food item
Food donations benefit the Food Bank of Iowa
No walk up guest list
Guest list requests with name & reason (& number if leaving on infoline)
can be left on the infoline at 515.830.1511 or e-mailed to 
<mailto:blitz666@m...>blitz666@m...
Cutoff date for guest list requests is May 31, 2003 at midnight
You will be contacted back by phone or e-mail with approvals or disapprovals
by June 4th or 5th

More info at:

515.830.1511
-or-
http://home.mchsi.com/~irlfcrew

Images of flyer at:
http://home.mchsi.com/~irlfcrew/ao_front.jpg
http://home.mchsi.com/~irlfcrew/ao_back.jpg





i beat the internet, the last guy was hard.

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
--0-1616280414-1054587446=:19514--

From mw-raves-return-34026-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 03 00:47:28 2003
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From: MikeD <mikeyd@pubnix.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] Iowa raves


Disco D is playing June 14 in Iowa City at Gabe's.  
he is playing with Hydrogen and Mishuggah and Miss Demeanor.

It will be $8 for minors, but I'm sure you could pursuade the door person
for the 21+ admission of $7  ;)      

beware though..the drinks are *very* strong there.  

-mike



On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Krueger, Jennifer L. wrote:

> Hey, I attended my first rave last summer on my 20th b-day. June 15. It
> was an AMAZING experience. So this year I want to celebrate my
> anniversary. Anyone know of something good in Iowa in the month of
> June?? Also, did anyone go to Crop Circles 2 in Ames, Iowa? I had a
> blast there and ODI was simply awesome.
> 
>  
> 
> :-) Jen :-)
> 
> 






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From mw-raves-return-34027-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 03 04:07:03 2003
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From: GGJim@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 00:06:18 EDT
To: kode_@hotmail.com, rikishi62@hotmail.com, Liquidance101@aol.com,
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Subject: Re: [mw] A dead scene??

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Especially the "shit" part.
Damn, we'd rake it in with a Britney Scat video.

GGJim
www.forcedentryrecords.com

In a message dated 6/1/03 10:00:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
kode_@hotmail.com writes:

> I got this idea.. If we all pool our money we can get Britney spears and 
> N'sync, and I guarantee that we will make our money back, especially if we 
> can get some backstage video of britney showering and shit..
> 
> 



--part1_4e.1d2112f3.2c0d78ba_boundary--

From mw-raves-return-34028-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 03 06:35:12 2003
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From: EDMPromotions@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 02:34:25 EDT
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Subject: Re: [mw] Iowa raves

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In a message dated 6/2/2003 3:35:41 PM US Eastern Standard Time, 
jlkrueger@dmacc.edu writes:

> Also, did anyone go to Crop Circles 2 in Ames, Iowa? 

You'll be happy to know they are doing a third one this year.

<A HREF="www.sublunaryAM.com">www.sublunaryAM.com</A> for mo' info!

-Chocolate:TheFreakyAfroNaut
House of Babylon Sound System

--part1_3a.39cd0e8b.2c0d9b71_boundary--

From mw-raves-return-34029-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 03 07:30:48 2003
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Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 02:30:31 -0500
From: "schematik" <the_sickness@lycos.com>
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Subject: Re: [mw] Iowa raves

HA!
my friend went there a while back for her birthday, when she told them it was her birthday, they made her a special drink: the minderaser.  it was pure alcohol (151, amaretto, and something else) and a dab of coke for colour, after two of them, she couldn't talk very well.

---
softcore müsik: i like it when it goes bleep
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--------- Original Message ---------
>
>DATE: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:36:50 
>From: MikeD <mikeyd@pubnix.org>
>To: "Krueger, Jennifer L." <jlkrueger@dmacc.edu>
>Cc: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>
>>
>>Disco D is playing June 14 in Iowa City at Gabe's.  
>>he is playing with Hydrogen and Mishuggah and Miss Demeanor.
>>
>>It will be $8 for minors, but I'm sure you could pursuade the door person
>>for the 21+ admission of $7  ;)      
>>
>>beware though..the drinks are *very* strong there.  
>>
>>-mike
>>
>>
>>
>>On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Krueger, Jennifer L. wrote:
>>
>>> Hey, I attended my first rave last summer on my 20th b-day. June 15. It
>>> was an AMAZING experience. So this year I want to celebrate my
>>> anniversary. Anyone know of something good in Iowa in the month of
>>> June?? Also, did anyone go to Crop Circles 2 in Ames, Iowa? I had a
>>> blast there and ODI was simply awesome.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> :-) Jen :-)
>>> 
>>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>
>
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From mw-raves-return-34030-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 03 07:47:35 2003
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From: J Hoeppner <partykid303@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [mw] Dj Funk @ The Rave

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Hello, 
Just wanted to tell everyone my sad story, well i went to dj funk just to dance, and have a good time, and i went with my cousin she was having fun i think. The sad thing is that when i was dancing i seen this very cute girl that was very attractive, and everywhere i danced she danced, so i thought she was totally liking me, the sad thing to this is at the end she kinda stood there with her friend waiting for me to come over and talk, but i was to scared to, i was afraid she would laugh at me or something so i sorta hid behind my cousin, then me and my cousin left while they left, and she yealled at her and her friend saying i liked her, but i dont think they heard me :( its just a damn shame that i was so scared and shy... well just though maybe some of u would enjoy the things i write, i had to tell some one about it, and who knows maybe she will see this and write back...
well talk to u all later...
 
~Jamie


*~-...-~*~-...-~* Two Worlds Collide, Do you know who you are? *~-...-~*~-...-~* JCS

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
--0-1687660214-1054626450=:29016--

From mw-raves-return-34031-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 03 15:42:37 2003
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From: <becky@pubnix.org>
To: J Hoeppner <partykid303@yahoo.com>
cc: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: [mw] Dj Funk @ The Rave

ummm... like... yeah...

junior high school much?


On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, J Hoeppner wrote:

> Hello, 
> Just wanted to tell everyone my sad story, well i went to dj funk just to dance, and have a good time, and i went with my cousin she was having fun i think. The sad thing is that when i was dancing i seen this very cute girl that was very attractive, and everywhere i danced she danced, so i thought she was totally liking me, the sad thing to this is at the end she kinda stood there with her friend waiting for me to come over and talk, but i was to scared to, i was afraid she would laugh at me or something so i sorta hid behind my cousin, then me and my cousin left while they left, and she yealled at her and her friend saying i liked her, but i dont think they heard me :( its just a damn shame that i was so scared and shy... well just though maybe some of u would enjoy the things i write, i had to tell some one about it, and who knows maybe she will see this and write back...
> well talk to u all later...
>  
> ~Jamie
> 
> 
> *~-...-~*~-...-~* Two Worlds Collide, Do you know who you are? *~-...-~*~-...-~* JCS
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).

-- 
***

-Becky =)

becky@pubnix.org
http://www.pubnix.org/~becky

***


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From mw-raves-return-34032-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 03 16:00:45 2003
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From:  <doris@atomly.com>
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Subject: Re: [mw] Dj Funk @ The Rave

uh, hate to break it to ya kid but....  dj funk is dead.




har dee har har.


> On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, J Hoeppner wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > Just wanted to tell everyone my sad story, well i went to dj funk
> just to dance, and have a good time, and i went with my cousin she was
> having fun i think. The sad thing is that when i was dancing i seen
> this very cute girl that was very attractive, and everywhere i danced
> she danced, so i thought she was totally liking me, the sad thing to
> this is at the end she kinda stood there with her friend waiting for
> me to come over and talk, but i was to scared to, i was afraid she
> would laugh at me or something so i sorta hid behind my cousin, then
> me and my cousin left while they left, and she yealled at her and her
> friend saying i liked her, but i dont think they heard me :( its just
> a damn shame that i was so scared and shy... well just though maybe
> some of u would enjoy the things i write, i had to tell some one about
> it, and who knows maybe she will see this and write back... > well
> talk to u all later... > > ~Jamie > > > *~-...-~*~-...-~* Two Worlds
> Collide, Do you know who you are? *~-...-~*~-...-~* JCS > >
> --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Free online
> calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
>
> --
> ***
>
> -Becky =)
>
> becky@pubnix.org
> http://www.pubnix.org/~becky
>
> ***
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>


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From mw-raves-return-34033-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 03 16:52:14 2003
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Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:52:07 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: <doris@atomly.com>,
 what list? <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] Dj Funk @ The Rave]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO=
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO=
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO=
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=
!!!



oh dj funk, we hardly knew ye....

<doris@atomly.com> wrote:
> uh, hate to break it to ya kid but....  dj funk is dead.


DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34034-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 03 21:43:31 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] Dj Funk @ The Rave

you are bringing me down with your negative vibes, becky
wagenheimenherschlager=2E

jamie, was DJ Funk wearing the hat that said "FUNK" in bedazzler
jewels?  i love it when he wears that hat=2E  i also love when he uses
smoke machines and really bright lights that he brings along himself
to mask the fact that he is playing cds, and not even mixing them=2E=20

also: were the hot girls over the age of 18?

enquiring minds want to know=2E


>
>---- Original Message ----
>From: becky@pubnix=2Eorg
>To: partykid303@yahoo=2Ecom
>Subject: Re: [mw] Dj Funk @ The Rave
>Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:40:02 -0500 (CDT)
>
>>ummm=2E=2E=2E like=2E=2E=2E yeah=2E=2E=2E
>>
>>junior high school much?



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From mw-raves-return-34035-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 04 01:57:23 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] Dj Funk @ The Rave

doris, can you hold my glowsticks while i give bill a seabreeze please???
the pockets in my fun fur pants can't hold anything else, i've collected
so many fliers for my next rave.


On Tue, 3 Jun 2003 drthundr@milwpc.com wrote:

> you are bringing me down with your negative vibes, becky
> wagenheimenherschlager.
> 
> jamie, was DJ Funk wearing the hat that said "FUNK" in bedazzler
> jewels?  i love it when he wears that hat.  i also love when he uses
> smoke machines and really bright lights that he brings along himself
> to mask the fact that he is playing cds, and not even mixing them. 
> 
> also: were the hot girls over the age of 18?
> 
> enquiring minds want to know.
> 
> 
> >
> >---- Original Message ----
> >From: becky@pubnix.org
> >To: partykid303@yahoo.com
> >Subject: Re: [mw] Dj Funk @ The Rave
> >Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:40:02 -0500 (CDT)
> >
> >>ummm... like... yeah...
> >>
> >>junior high school much?
> 
> 
> 
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
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-- 
***

-Becky =)

becky@pubnix.org
http://www.pubnix.org/~becky

***


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From mw-raves-return-34036-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 04 03:54:52 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] Dj Funk @ The Rave

is it...just me...or are youse just as jaded as me? :D

good to know there's a little life in this list, just got my connection
after moving to duh-hio last october...hi all...

-sean

becky@pubnix.org wrote:
> 
> doris, can you hold my glowsticks while i give bill a seabreeze please???
> the pockets in my fun fur pants can't hold anything else, i've collected
> so many fliers for my next rave.


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From mw-raves-return-34037-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 05 02:24:45 2003
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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:40:55 -0500
From: atomly <atomly@atomly.com>
To: atomly-news@atomly.com
Cc: xif@atomly.com, mw-raves@hyperreal.org, konfusedkrew@yahoogroups.com,
  idm@hyperreal.org, gabber@hyperreal.org, idm-making@yahoogroups.com,
  hardsound@yahoogroups.com, 313@hyperreal.org, ant_zen@yahoogroups.com,
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Subject: [mw] Set From Milwaukee

I recorded my set from the Milwaukee show with Mlada Fronta + Mimetic at
Quarters two weeks ago (that's much too complex of a sentence), so I
thought I'd share it for anybody that's interested...

http://www.atomly.com/music/atomly_-_live_at_quarters_milwaukee_20030524.mp3

-- 
:: atomly ::

[ atomly@atomly.com : www.atomly.com ...
[ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 312.804.5389 ...
[ e-mail atomly-news-subscribe@atomly.com for atomly info and updates ...

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From mw-raves-return-34038-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 05 20:51:29 2003
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Thread-Topic: [mw] Iowa raves
Thread-Index: AcMpR8gMOE6b973yQE6TiqBY57kIfQCW9Zhw
From: "Krueger, Jennifer L." <jlkrueger@dmacc.edu>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: RE: [mw] Iowa raves

Hmmmm, Beat Fusion is the one I went to on the 15th. However, thank you =
SOOOOOO much for cc2. 2 of my friends I went with, it was their first =
rave. It was so perfect. One of them met odi and he gave her a cd. =
Everything about that night was completely awesome!!! THANK YOU and I =
can't wait for the next one :)

-----Original Message-----
From: schematik [mailto:the_sickness@lycos.com]=20
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 3:44 PM
To: Krueger, Jennifer L.
Subject: Re: [mw] Iowa raves


oh yeah, i just realised that i also probably threw that one on the 15th =
too, was it called moonraker by chance?



---
softcore m=FCsik: i like it when it goes bleep

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From mw-raves-return-34039-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jun 07 15:56:04 2003
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From: Casey <partykidzproductions@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [mw] My Fifteen Minutes

http://www.eyemaze.net/movement/index.html

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com

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From mw-raves-return-34040-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 10 05:00:05 2003
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Subject: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 23:00:00 -0500
From: word@m-w.com
To: CHAD@hyperreal.org
Subject: shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day

*****************************************************************
Looking for a flashier rhyme for "June" than "moon?"
Fine-tune and festoon with our new Rhyming Dictionary!
http://www.merriam-webster.com/book/writref/rhym_pbk.htm
*****************************************************************

The Word of the Day for June 10 is:

shivaree   \shih-vuh-REE\   noun
     : a noisy mock serenade to a newly married couple

Example sentence:
     On the night of Sally and Henry's wedding, the townspeople
gathered outside the couple's window to participate in a raucous
shivaree.

Did you know?
     In 19th century rural America, a newly-married couple might
be treated to a mock serenade, performed with pots, pans,
homemade instruments, and other noisemakers. Such cacophonous
serenades were traditionally considered especially appropriate
for second marriages or for unions deemed incongruous because of
an age discrepancy or some other cause. In the eastern U.S. this
custom, imported from rural England, was simply called
a "serenade" or known under various local names. In much of the
central U.S. and Canada, however, it was called a "shivaree," a
loan from French "charivari," which denotes the same folk custom
in France. In more recent years, "shivaree" has also developed
broader senses; it is sometimes used to mean simply "a
cacophony" or "a celebration."


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From mw-raves-return-34041-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 10 15:07:39 2003
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From: Matt Hellige <matt@immute.net>
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Subject: Re: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


SHARI  VARI



[chad <chad@hyperreal.org>]
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 23:00:00 -0500
> From: word@m-w.com
> To: CHAD@hyperreal.org
> Subject: shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day
> 
> *****************************************************************
> Looking for a flashier rhyme for "June" than "moon?"
> Fine-tune and festoon with our new Rhyming Dictionary!
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/book/writref/rhym_pbk.htm
> *****************************************************************
> 
> The Word of the Day for June 10 is:
> 
> shivaree   \shih-vuh-REE\   noun
>      : a noisy mock serenade to a newly married couple
> 
> Example sentence:
>      On the night of Sally and Henry's wedding, the townspeople
> gathered outside the couple's window to participate in a raucous
> shivaree.
> 
> Did you know?
>      In 19th century rural America, a newly-married couple might
> be treated to a mock serenade, performed with pots, pans,
> homemade instruments, and other noisemakers. Such cacophonous
> serenades were traditionally considered especially appropriate
> for second marriages or for unions deemed incongruous because of
> an age discrepancy or some other cause. In the eastern U.S. this
> custom, imported from rural England, was simply called
> a "serenade" or known under various local names. In much of the
> central U.S. and Canada, however, it was called a "shivaree," a
> loan from French "charivari," which denotes the same folk custom
> in France. In more recent years, "shivaree" has also developed
> broader senses; it is sometimes used to mean simply "a
> cacophony" or "a celebration."
> 
> 
> You Are Subscribed As: CHAD@hyperreal.org
> 
> To subscribe to the html version of Merriam-Webster's Word of
> the Day, featuring audio pronunciations, interactive surveys,
> and more:
> http://www.startsampling.com/sm/wod/changeofaddress.iphtml
> 
> (c) 2003 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
> 
> *mf mwt 061003 CHAD@hyperreal.org mf*
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: mw-raves-help@hyperreal.org

-- 
Matt Hellige                  matt@immute.net
http://matt.immute.net

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From mw-raves-return-34042-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 10 15:09:51 2003
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Thread-Topic: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)
Thread-Index: AcMvYgfAfTpyh4DKQty+Sk831E0r3gAABKcA
From: "Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>
To: "Matt Hellige" <matt@immute.net>,
	"chad" <chad@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: RE: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)

Question / Poll

What 5 djs/artists have the biggest draw in the mid west particularly
the Detroit area....




-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Hellige [mailto:matt@immute.net]=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:36 AM
To: chad
Cc: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


SHARI  VARI



[chad <chad@hyperreal.org>]
>=20
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 23:00:00 -0500
> From: word@m-w.com
> To: CHAD@hyperreal.org
> Subject: shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day
>=20
> *****************************************************************
> Looking for a flashier rhyme for "June" than "moon?" Fine-tune and=20
> festoon with our new Rhyming Dictionary!=20
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/book/writref/rhym_pbk.htm
> *****************************************************************
>=20
> The Word of the Day for June 10 is:
>=20
> shivaree   \shih-vuh-REE\   noun
>      : a noisy mock serenade to a newly married couple
>=20
> Example sentence:
>      On the night of Sally and Henry's wedding, the townspeople=20
> gathered outside the couple's window to participate in a raucous=20
> shivaree.
>=20
> Did you know?
>      In 19th century rural America, a newly-married couple might be=20
> treated to a mock serenade, performed with pots, pans, homemade=20
> instruments, and other noisemakers. Such cacophonous serenades were=20
> traditionally considered especially appropriate for second marriages=20
> or for unions deemed incongruous because of an age discrepancy or some

> other cause. In the eastern U.S. this custom, imported from rural=20
> England, was simply called a "serenade" or known under various local=20
> names. In much of the central U.S. and Canada, however, it was called=20
> a "shivaree," a loan from French "charivari," which denotes the same=20
> folk custom in France. In more recent years, "shivaree" has also=20
> developed broader senses; it is sometimes used to mean simply "a
> cacophony" or "a celebration."
>=20
>=20
> You Are Subscribed As: CHAD@hyperreal.org
>=20
> To subscribe to the html version of Merriam-Webster's Word of the Day,

> featuring audio pronunciations, interactive surveys, and more:
> http://www.startsampling.com/sm/wod/changeofaddress.iphtml
>=20
> (c) 2003 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
>=20
> *mf mwt 061003 CHAD@hyperreal.org mf*
>=20
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: mw-raves-help@hyperreal.org

--=20
Matt Hellige                  matt@immute.net
http://matt.immute.net

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From mw-raves-return-34043-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 10 15:40:50 2003
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From: <chrise@pubnix.org>
To: Bill Spaulding <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>
cc: Matt Hellige <matt@immute.net>, chad <chad@hyperreal.org>,
        mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: RE: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)


> Question / Poll
> 
> What 5 djs/artists have the biggest draw in the mid west particularly
> the Detroit area....
> 

1) DJ Shivaree
2) DJ Squishypants
3) Hans Blix vx. Chemical Ali
4) DJ why did you post this as a reply?
5) DJ Spree


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From mw-raves-return-34044-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 10 15:42:46 2003
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        mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)

[chrise@pubnix.org]
> 
> > Question / Poll
> > 
> > What 5 djs/artists have the biggest draw in the mid west particularly
> > the Detroit area....
> > 
> 
> 1) DJ Shivaree
> 2) DJ Squishypants
> 3) Hans Blix vx. Chemical Ali
> 4) DJ why did you post this as a reply?


Ooo he's my all-time fave!!! 


> 5) DJ Spree

-- 
Matt Hellige                  matt@immute.net
http://matt.immute.net

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From mw-raves-return-34045-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 10 16:15:07 2003
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Thread-Topic: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)
Thread-Index: AcMvZqnr6bDfoDnvRqmbO0CbK77c7gABCJug
From: "Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>
To: <chrise@pubnix.org>
Cc: "Matt Hellige" <matt@immute.net>,
	"chad" <chad@hyperreal.org>,
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X-Spam-Rating: taz3.hyperreal.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N
Subject: RE: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)

Im a promoter from Atlanta ( originally from Detroit ) moved to Detroit
recently and just want to get a feel for what talent people would like
to see brought in. The south east is a very different place
trance/breaks .... Personally im more house/techno... Is this a very
active list the SE list generates 100's of letters a day. Im producing
an event in Detroit on July 25th with Humpty Vission.....
www.lifepromotegroup.com (just home page is up but will be complete
shortly with event info.)




-----Original Message-----
From: chrise@pubnix.org [mailto:chrise@pubnix.org]=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:38 AM
To: Bill Spaulding
Cc: Matt Hellige; chad; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)



> Question / Poll
>=20
> What 5 djs/artists have the biggest draw in the mid west particularly=20
> the Detroit area....
>=20

1) DJ Shivaree
2) DJ Squishypants
3) Hans Blix vx. Chemical Ali
4) DJ why did you post this as a reply?
5) DJ Spree


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From mw-raves-return-34046-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 10 16:19:59 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)

[Bill Spaulding <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>]
> Im a promoter from Atlanta ( originally from Detroit ) moved to Detroit
> recently and just want to get a feel for what talent people would like
> to see brought in. The south east is a very different place
> trance/breaks .... Personally im more house/techno... Is this a very
> active list the SE list generates 100's of letters a day. Im producing
> an event in Detroit on July 25th with Humpty Vission.....
> www.lifepromotegroup.com (just home page is up but will be complete
> shortly with event info.)

This used to be a very active list, but since the demise of the
Chicago rave scene it's pretty much just the old geriatrics talking
shit. And believe me, you're not the only one disappointed by this.

Incidentally, the people of Detroit DEMAND to see me play, so
you should definitely book me next time or you'll be laughed straight
back to the dirty south.

Matt

-- 
Matt Hellige                  matt@immute.net
http://matt.immute.net

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From mw-raves-return-34047-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 10 16:21:31 2003
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From: "Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>
To: "Matt Hellige" <matt@immute.net>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: RE: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)

That's dirty dirty south!......... Send me a link to down load a set!






-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Hellige [mailto:matt@immute.net]=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:49 AM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)


[Bill Spaulding <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>]
> Im a promoter from Atlanta ( originally from Detroit ) moved to=20
> Detroit recently and just want to get a feel for what talent people=20
> would like to see brought in. The south east is a very different place

> trance/breaks .... Personally im more house/techno... Is this a very=20
> active list the SE list generates 100's of letters a day. Im producing

> an event in Detroit on July 25th with Humpty Vission.....=20
> www.lifepromotegroup.com (just home page is up but will be complete=20
> shortly with event info.)

This used to be a very active list, but since the demise of the Chicago
rave scene it's pretty much just the old geriatrics talking shit. And
believe me, you're not the only one disappointed by this.

Incidentally, the people of Detroit DEMAND to see me play, so you should
definitely book me next time or you'll be laughed straight back to the
dirty south.

Matt

--=20
Matt Hellige                  matt@immute.net
http://matt.immute.net

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From mw-raves-return-34048-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 10 17:18:20 2003
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Subject: RE: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)

mmmmm dirty dirty south.
how 'bout milwaukee area, then i'd be interested.




>That's dirty dirty south!...


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From mw-raves-return-34049-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 10 17:21:41 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] shivaree: M-W's Word of the Day (fwd)


On Tuesday, June 10, 2003, at 10:48  AM, Matt Hellige wrote:

> This used to be a very active list,


What list?


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From mw-raves-return-34050-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 03:52:07 2003
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Subject: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?


??



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From mw-raves-return-34051-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 03:56:49 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?

1) bridal shower in ferndale.  i got her an espresso machine.

2) untitled at the shelter.  will shake ass.


On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, chad wrote:

>
> ??
>
>
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From mw-raves-return-34052-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 08:00:37 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?

Gardening, playing soccer, and RAVING!

--- chad <chad@hyperreal.org> wrote:
> 
> ??
> 
> 
> 
>
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From mw-raves-return-34053-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 11:44:52 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?


i think that on friday mr voigt is playing at some place called '9 south'
in pontiac, free cover, and it's cheryl's birthday party thing.  i'll
probably try to go to that.

-j

--
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From mw-raves-return-34054-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 12:32:02 2003
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Subject: RE: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?

Isnt Stacey Pullan playing in Detroit this weekend?



-----Original Message-----
From: Rev. Jeffrey Paul [mailto:sneak@datavibe.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:45 AM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?



i think that on friday mr voigt is playing at some place called '9
south' in pontiac, free cover, and it's cheryl's birthday party thing.
i'll probably try to go to that.

-j

--
--------------------------------------------------------
 Rev. Jeffrey Paul    -datavibe-     sneak@datavibe.net
   aim:x736e65616b   pgp:0x15FA257E   phone:8777483467
    70E0 B896 D5F3 8BF4 4BEE 2CCF EF2F BA28 15FA 257E
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From mw-raves-return-34055-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 13:20:50 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?

> ??

Bonnaroo Music Festival
http://www.bonnaroo.com/2003/

t-minus 12 hours until departure.


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From mw-raves-return-34056-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 13:49:48 2003
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From: Jamiesweedshack@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:49:43 EDT
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Subject: [mw] What's going in Chi-Town?

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I am coming to Chicago July 12-14.=A0 I was wondering what was going on arou=
nd=20
that time.=A0 Anything I could get in to.=A0 I go there often for Business=20
meetings, I seem to always get stuck in the tourist death traps.=A0 I want t=
o check out=20
the local scene.=A0 MMMM?

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From mw-raves-return-34057-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 16:17:31 2003
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Subject: RE: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?

house parties ! Weeee

that and working a lot..

steve


>From: "Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>
>To: "Rev. Jeffrey Paul" <sneak@datavibe.net>,<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
>Subject: RE: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?
>Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:32:00 -0400
>
>Isnt Stacey Pullan playing in Detroit this weekend?
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rev. Jeffrey Paul [mailto:sneak@datavibe.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:45 AM
>To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>Subject: Re: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?
>
>
>
>i think that on friday mr voigt is playing at some place called '9
>south' in pontiac, free cover, and it's cheryl's birthday party thing.
>i'll probably try to go to that.
>
>-j
>
>--
>--------------------------------------------------------
>  Rev. Jeffrey Paul    -datavibe-     sneak@datavibe.net
>    aim:x736e65616b   pgp:0x15FA257E   phone:8777483467
>     70E0 B896 D5F3 8BF4 4BEE 2CCF EF2F BA28 15FA 257E
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From mw-raves-return-34058-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 16:50:10 2003
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Subject: RE: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?

good vibrations, i don't know why

-----Original Message-----
From: stephen wiggins [mailto:koolaidman24@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:17 AM
To: bspaulding@hmscollc.com; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?


house parties ! Weeee

that and working a lot..

steve


>From: "Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>
>To: "Rev. Jeffrey Paul" <sneak@datavibe.net>,<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
>Subject: RE: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?
>Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:32:00 -0400
>
>Isnt Stacey Pullan playing in Detroit this weekend?
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rev. Jeffrey Paul [mailto:sneak@datavibe.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:45 AM
>To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>Subject: Re: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?
>
>
>
>i think that on friday mr voigt is playing at some place called '9
>south' in pontiac, free cover, and it's cheryl's birthday party thing.
>i'll probably try to go to that.
>
>-j
>
>--
>--------------------------------------------------------
>  Rev. Jeffrey Paul    -datavibe-     sneak@datavibe.net
>    aim:x736e65616b   pgp:0x15FA257E   phone:8777483467
>     70E0 B896 D5F3 8BF4 4BEE 2CCF EF2F BA28 15FA 257E
>--------------------------------------------------------
>
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From mw-raves-return-34059-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 18:28:54 2003
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Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:28:33 -0500
From: Tom Sprynczynatyk <spry0004@tc.umn.edu>
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Subject: Re: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?

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Going to go watch a kickboxing/king of the ring tournament, doing some 
gardening, and hopefully a little frolfing if the weather is nice on Sunday.


I'm old now,
Tom

>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: stephen wiggins [mailto:koolaidman24@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:17 AM
>To: bspaulding@hmscollc.com; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>Subject: RE: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?
>
>
>house parties ! Weeee
>
>that and working a lot..
>
>steve
>
>
>  
>
>>From: "Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>
>>To: "Rev. Jeffrey Paul" <sneak@datavibe.net>,<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
>>Subject: RE: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?
>>Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:32:00 -0400
>>
>>Isnt Stacey Pullan playing in Detroit this weekend?
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Rev. Jeffrey Paul [mailto:sneak@datavibe.net]
>>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:45 AM
>>To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>>Subject: Re: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?
>>
>>
>>
>>i think that on friday mr voigt is playing at some place called '9
>>south' in pontiac, free cover, and it's cheryl's birthday party thing.
>>i'll probably try to go to that.
>>
>>-j
>>
>>--
>>--------------------------------------------------------
>> Rev. Jeffrey Paul    -datavibe-     sneak@datavibe.net
>>   aim:x736e65616b   pgp:0x15FA257E   phone:8777483467
>>    70E0 B896 D5F3 8BF4 4BEE 2CCF EF2F BA28 15FA 257E
>>--------------------------------------------------------
>>
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From mw-raves-return-34060-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 21:18:32 2003
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Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:18:24 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: [mw] DEA Uses RAVE Act to Shut Down Fundraiser

DEA Uses RAVE Act to Stop a Benefit to Raise Money for Marijuana Reform =


**Fax the DEA and Tell Acting Administrator William Simpkins to stop usin=
g the
RAVE Act Against Political Events: =

http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=3D11883&l=3D2008 =


 Only two months after the RAVE Act was passed by Congress it has =

been used by the federal Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) to =

intimidate the owners of a Billings, Montana, venue into canceling a comb=
ined
benefit for the Montana chapter of the National Organization for =

the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) and Students for Sensible Drug =

Policy (SSDP). One of the biggest reasons the Drug Policy Alliance waged =
a
national campaign to stop the RAVE Act was that we feared it would =

be used to shut down political events like this. =


 On the day the fundraiser was set to take place a Billings-based =

DEA agent presented the venue owners with a copy of the RAVE Act =

warning them that they could face a fine of $250,000 if illicit drugs wer=
e
found in the premises. The bands - most of which regularly played =

at the venue - were also approached and warned that their =

participation in the event could result in a fine. =


 Rather than risk the possibility of enormous fines, the venue =

decided to cancel the event. This blatant intimidation by the DEA was =

obviously designed to shut down the marijuana reform fundraiser. Unless t=
he
American people speak out against this attack on free speech, the =

DEA will be emboldened to use the law against other events they do not li=
ke,
such as all-night dance parties, hip hop concerts, hemp festivals, and ci=
rcuit
parties. =


 Join the Drug Policy Alliance, National Organization for the Reform =

of Marijuana Laws, Students for Sensible Drug Policy, and numerous =

other organizations in our campaign to pressure the DEA to stop using the=
 RAVE
Act to shut down political events. =


ACTIONS TO TAKE =


1) Fax the DEA. Urge Acting Administrator William Simpkins to stop using =
the
RAVE Act to harass innocent business owners and stifle free speech. =

http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=3D11883&l=3D2008 =


2) Forward this alert to friends and family. Send it to e-mail =

lists and post it in chat rooms. =


BACKGROUND =

Sponsored by Senator Biden (D-DE), the RAVE Act (also known as the Illici=
t
Drug Anti-Proliferation Act) was first introduced last year. It proved so=

controversial then that two of its original co-sponsors withdrew their su=
pport
because they feared it would send innocent =

business owners to jail. Business owners collected over 20,000 =

signatures in opposition to the bill. Protests against it were =

held around the country and tens of thousands of voters urged their =

elected official to oppose it. Controversy over the bill stalled it last =

year, but Senator Biden attached it to the popular "Amber Alert" bill =

without public debate or a vote of Congress earlier this year and snuck i=
t
into law. =


The RAVE Act expands federal law to make it easier to jail and =

imprison event organizers and property owners that fail to stop drug =

offenses from occurring on their property - even in cases when they take =

serious steps to reduce drug offenses. It applies to "any place", includi=
ng =

bars and nightclubs, hotels, apartment buildings, and homes. Legal expert=
s
warned that the law was so broad that it could be used to =

shut down not only raves and electronic music events, but also Hip Hop, =

rock, and country music concerts, sporting events, gay and lesbian
fundraisers, political protests, and any other event federal agents do no=
t
like. =


On May 30th an agent of the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) told =

managers of the Eagle Lodge in Billings, Montana that the Lodge =

could be fined $250,000 if anyone smoked marijuana during a planned =

benefit to raise money for a campaign to change Montana's medical marijua=
na
law. After consulting their attorneys, the Eagle Lodge canceled the event=
=2E
 =

For more information on the RAVE Act see: =

http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=3D11883&l=3D1989 =

 =

For more information on the DEA and the Eagle Lodge see: =

http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=3D11883&l=3D1990

-------------------------------------------------------------------


DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34061-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 22:43:40 2003
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Message-ID: <20030611224337.24526.qmail@web12203.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:43:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <792HFkVsy7776S03.1055366304@uwdvg003.cms.usa.net>
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Subject: Re: [mw] DEA Uses RAVE Act to Shut Down Fundraiser

So lets all crash the Republican Convention next year
and smoke lots of dope.


-tad
--- catnap <mechastudios@usa.net> wrote:
> DEA Uses RAVE Act to Stop a Benefit to Raise Money
> for Marijuana Reform 
> 
> **Fax the DEA and Tell Acting Administrator William
> Simpkins to stop using the
> RAVE Act Against Political Events: 
>
http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=11883&l=2008
> 
> 
>  Only two months after the RAVE Act was passed by
> Congress it has 
> been used by the federal Drug Enforcement
> Administration (DEA) to 
> intimidate the owners of a Billings, Montana, venue
> into canceling a combined
> benefit for the Montana chapter of the National
> Organization for 
> the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) and Students
> for Sensible Drug 
> Policy (SSDP). One of the biggest reasons the Drug
> Policy Alliance waged a
> national campaign to stop the RAVE Act was that we
> feared it would 
> be used to shut down political events like this. 
> 
>  On the day the fundraiser was set to take place a
> Billings-based 
> DEA agent presented the venue owners with a copy of
> the RAVE Act 
> warning them that they could face a fine of $250,000
> if illicit drugs were
> found in the premises. The bands - most of which
> regularly played 
> at the venue - were also approached and warned that
> their 
> participation in the event could result in a fine. 
> 
>  Rather than risk the possibility of enormous fines,
> the venue 
> decided to cancel the event. This blatant
> intimidation by the DEA was 
> obviously designed to shut down the marijuana reform
> fundraiser. Unless the
> American people speak out against this attack on
> free speech, the 
> DEA will be emboldened to use the law against other
> events they do not like,
> such as all-night dance parties, hip hop concerts,
> hemp festivals, and circuit
> parties. 
> 
>  Join the Drug Policy Alliance, National
> Organization for the Reform 
> of Marijuana Laws, Students for Sensible Drug
> Policy, and numerous 
> other organizations in our campaign to pressure the
> DEA to stop using the RAVE
> Act to shut down political events. 
> 
> ACTIONS TO TAKE 
> 
> 1) Fax the DEA. Urge Acting Administrator William
> Simpkins to stop using the
> RAVE Act to harass innocent business owners and
> stifle free speech. 
>
http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=11883&l=2008
> 
> 
> 2) Forward this alert to friends and family. Send it
> to e-mail 
> lists and post it in chat rooms. 
> 
> BACKGROUND 
> Sponsored by Senator Biden (D-DE), the RAVE Act
> (also known as the Illicit
> Drug Anti-Proliferation Act) was first introduced
> last year. It proved so
> controversial then that two of its original
> co-sponsors withdrew their support
> because they feared it would send innocent 
> business owners to jail. Business owners collected
> over 20,000 
> signatures in opposition to the bill. Protests
> against it were 
> held around the country and tens of thousands of
> voters urged their 
> elected official to oppose it. Controversy over the
> bill stalled it last 
> year, but Senator Biden attached it to the popular
> "Amber Alert" bill 
> without public debate or a vote of Congress earlier
> this year and snuck it
> into law. 
> 
> The RAVE Act expands federal law to make it easier
> to jail and 
> imprison event organizers and property owners that
> fail to stop drug 
> offenses from occurring on their property - even in
> cases when they take 
> serious steps to reduce drug offenses. It applies to
> "any place", including 
> bars and nightclubs, hotels, apartment buildings,
> and homes. Legal experts
> warned that the law was so broad that it could be
> used to 
> shut down not only raves and electronic music
> events, but also Hip Hop, 
> rock, and country music concerts, sporting events,
> gay and lesbian
> fundraisers, political protests, and any other event
> federal agents do not
> like. 
> 
> On May 30th an agent of the Drug Enforcement
> Administration (DEA) told 
> managers of the Eagle Lodge in Billings, Montana
> that the Lodge 
> could be fined $250,000 if anyone smoked marijuana
> during a planned 
> benefit to raise money for a campaign to change
> Montana's medical marijuana
> law. After consulting their attorneys, the Eagle
> Lodge canceled the event.
>  
> For more information on the RAVE Act see: 
>
http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=11883&l=1989
> 
>  
> For more information on the DEA and the Eagle Lodge
> see: 
>
http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=11883&l=1990
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> DJ Catnap
> "Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
> Mecha Studios
> mechastudios@usa.net
> 
> 
> 
>
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> 


__________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34062-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 23:15:51 2003
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Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:33:06 -0500
From: atomly <atomly@atomly.com>
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: [mw] What's going in Chi-Town?

[Jamiesweedshack@aol.com]
> I am coming to Chicago July 12-14.? I was wondering what was going on
> around that time.? Anything I could get in to.? I go there often for
> Business meetings, I seem to always get stuck in the tourist death
> traps.? I want to check out the local scene.? MMMM?

Deep Dish or the Ghostly showcase on the 12th, Ed Rush + Optical on the
13th, and a ton of clubby shit on the 14th.

-- 
:: atomly ::

[ atomly@atomly.com : www.atomly.com ...
[ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 312.804.5389 ...
[ e-mail atomly-news-subscribe@atomly.com for atomly info and updates ...

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From mw-raves-return-34063-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 11 23:20:40 2003
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Thread-Topic: [mw] DEA Uses RAVE Act to Shut Down Fundraiser
Thread-Index: AcMwatXMofXmfAnUTXWb8qni2IitYgAAQPfQ
From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: "Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>,
	"catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Spam-Rating: taz3.hyperreal.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N
Subject: RE: [mw] DEA Uses RAVE Act to Shut Down Fundraiser

I guess the question is, would the DEA enforce this if someone did
violate drug laws during an event with the intention of forcing the
space owners and organizers to have the penalties of the rave act
applied on them?

If they would, you could easily make a mess of literally every event
going on anywhere, from a school chior concert to 4th of july fireworks
celebrations.  You wouldn't even have to actually violate any laws, but
just threaten that there will be people there that MIGHT and that you've
informed the DEA that there is a good chance there will be violations
there.

Ha, you know, I can't think of a better day to make a point of how
ridiculous this law is than using it to make a mess of every city's 4th
of july firework show.

-t

-----Original Message-----
From: Tad Dicks [mailto:sluck604@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:44 PM
To: catnap; mw-raves@hyperreal.org

So lets all crash the Republican Convention next year and smoke lots of
dope.


-tad
--- catnap <mechastudios@usa.net> wrote:
> DEA Uses RAVE Act to Stop a Benefit to Raise Money for Marijuana=20
> Reform
>=20
> **Fax the DEA and Tell Acting Administrator William Simpkins to stop=20
> using the RAVE Act Against Political Events:
>
http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=3D11883&l=3D2008
>=20
>=20
>  Only two months after the RAVE Act was passed by Congress it has been

> used by the federal Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) to=20
> intimidate the owners of a Billings, Montana, venue into canceling a=20
> combined benefit for the Montana chapter of the National Organization=20
> for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) and Students for Sensible=20
> Drug Policy (SSDP). One of the biggest reasons the Drug Policy=20
> Alliance waged a national campaign to stop the RAVE Act was that we=20
> feared it would be used to shut down political events like this.
>=20

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From mw-raves-return-34064-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 12 05:29:39 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] DEA Uses RAVE Act to Shut Down Fundraiser

wow 250,000 worth of drugs? no way it would be in that venue! fuk



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From mw-raves-return-34065-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 12 20:35:11 2003
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Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:34:57 -0400
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Subject: RE: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?

friday: CHICAGO baby!
visit some friends then off to enjoy an evening of drum n bass to shake my booty...what to wear? maybe a strapless something.
the original dr shade 2003 world tour:
Ed Rush
Optical
Ryme Tyme
Dj Acucrack
flipside & glide

at the Metro, 3739 n clark, 11-4a

http://www.bassbythepound.com/

-----
sat night: radio show

sun: good Q, fathers day but dad's at our cabin up north. Party? Jazz Orgy at Peabody's? we'll see.

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From mw-raves-return-34066-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 12 20:36:07 2003
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Subject: [mw] [FWD: acidman this thursday!]

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Subject: acidman this thursday!
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:10:20 -0500
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For over six months now we have been brining you the weekly installment
sound design.  Support has been great and we love you for it.  We have a lot
in store for you this summer.   Some of the highlights include our first
overseas visitor coming in July!  Also planned in July is a much anticipated
performance from Jack Trash.  August will bring you the likes of Lady D from
Superjane Chicago.  Another Minneapolis favorite who has been putting in
work in
the studio with releases coming out on respected house labels such as Viva!
Recordings.  And that=92s only the beginning of what is to come!
sounddesign
artstyleatmosphere
this week 06/12
acidman
chicago | bunchlox =96
a very special guest from the windy city this week.  acidman has been doing
this longer than most, and he does it well.
make sure to make it out for this one as it is a set not to be missed.
michaeljohn
epiphic | oshkosh
sounddesign creator, house guru, and resident drunk at your service.

sounddesign happens every thursday @
the velvet room, 125 s. washington st
green bay, wi
21+ no cover | no dress code
$3 pints capn=92 and coke
$2 rolling rocks
$3 jagi bombs

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
To be removed simply reply with persian bone crusher in the subject line





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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#=
cc9900"  face=3D"AvantGarde Bk BT"><span  font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";col=
or:#CC9900;font-weight:bold'>For over six
months now we have been brining you the weekly installment sound design.<spa=
n >&nbsp; </span>Support has been great and we love you
for it.<span>&nbsp; </span>We have a lot in store for
you this summer.<span>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Some of the
highlights include our first <o:p></o:p></span></font></b></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#=
cc9900"  face=3D"AvantGarde Bk BT"><span  font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";col=
or:#CC9900;font-weight:bold'>overseas visitor
coming in July!<span>&nbsp; </span>Also planned in
July is a much anticipated performance from Jack Trash.<span >&nbsp; </span>=
August will bring you the likes of Lady
D from Superjane Chicago.<span>&nbsp; </span>Another
Minneapolis favorite who has been putting in work in<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></b></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#=
cc9900"  face=3D"AvantGarde Bk BT"><span  font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";col=
or:#CC9900;font-weight:bold'>the studio with
releases coming out on respected house labels such as Viva! Recordings.<span=
 >&nbsp; </span>And that&#8217;s only the beginning of what
is to come!</span></font></b></span><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D=
2  color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span  font-family:Arial'> <span>&nbsp;</span>=
</span></font></span><span  class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D7 color=3D"#66=
3300" face=3DDokyo><span ><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D7 color=3D"#663=
300"  face=3DDokyo><span  Dokyo;color:#663300'>sound</span></font></span><sp=
an class=3DEmailStyle18><font  size=3D7 color=3D"#cc9900" face=3DDokyo><span=
  12.0pt;font-family:Dokyo;color:#CC9900'>design</span></font></span><span =20=
class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D7 color=3D"#666633" face=3DDokyo><span ><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span  class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D5 color=3D"#cc=
9900" face=3D"Bauhaus 93"><span   color:#CC9900'>art</span></font></span><sp=
an class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D5  color=3D"#663300" face=3D"Bauhaus 93=
"><span  12.0pt;font-family:"Bauhaus 93";color:#663300'>style</span></font><=
/span><span  class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D5 color=3D"#cc9900" face=3D"B=
auhaus 93"><span   color:#CC9900'>atmosphere</span></font></span><span class=3D=
EmailStyle18><font  size=3D5 color=3D"#ff6600" face=3D"Bauhaus 93"><span  ms=
o-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Bauhaus 93";color:#FF6600'><o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D7 color=3D"#333=
300"  face=3DSteelfish><span  font-family:Steelfish;color:#333300'>this week=
 06/12<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D7 color=3D"#663=
300"  face=3D"Bauhaus 93"><span  font-family:"Bauhaus 93";color:#663300'>aci=
d</span></font></span><span  class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D7 color=3D"#c=
c9900" face=3D"Bauhaus 93"><span   color:#CC9900'>man</span></font></span><s=
pan class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D6  color=3D"#333300" face=3DSteelfish>=
<span  12.0pt;font-family:Steelfish;color:#333300'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D6 color=3D"#333=
300"  face=3DSteelfish><span  font-family:Steelfish;color:#333300'>chicago |=
 bunchlox &#8211; <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D6 color=3D"#333=
300"  face=3DSteelfish><span  font-family:Steelfish;color:#333300'>a very sp=
ecial guest from the windy city
this week.<span>&nbsp; </span>acidman has been doing
this longer than most, and he does it well.<span>&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></=
span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D6 color=3D"#333=
300"  face=3DSteelfish><span  font-family:Steelfish;color:#333300'>make sure=
 to make it out for this one as
it is a set not to be missed.</span></font></span><span class=3DEmailStyle18=
><font  size=3D7 color=3D"#006666" face=3D"Bauhaus 93"><span  mso-bidi-font-=
size:12.0pt;font-family:"Bauhaus 93";color:#006666'><o:p></o:p></span></font=
></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D7 color=3D"#cc9=
900"  face=3D"Bauhaus 93"><span  font-family:"Bauhaus 93";color:#CC9900'>mic=
hael</span></font></span><span  class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D7 color=3D=
"#663300" face=3D"Bauhaus 93"><span   color:#663300'>john</span></font></spa=
n><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D7  color=3D"#006666" face=3D"Bauha=
us 93"><span  12.0pt;font-family:"Bauhaus 93";color:#006666'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D6 color=3D"#333=
300"  face=3DSteelfish><span  font-family:Steelfish;color:#333300'>epiphic |=
 oshkosh<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D6 color=3D"#333=
300"  face=3DSteelfish><span  font-family:Steelfish;color:#333300'>sounddesi=
gn creator, house guru, and
resident drunk at your service</span></font></span><span class=3DEmailStyle1=
8><font  size=3D6 color=3D"#5e2f20" face=3D"Futura Md BT"><span  mso-bidi-fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Futura Md BT";color:#5E2F20'>.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D5 color=3D"#5e2=
f20"  face=3D"Futura Md BT"><span  font-family:"Futura Md BT";color:#5E2F20'=
>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D5 color=3D"#663=
300"  face=3D"Futura Md BT"><span  font-family:"Futura Md BT";color:#663300'=
>sounddesign happens every thursday @ <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D5 color=3D"#663=
300"  face=3D"Futura Md BT"><span  font-family:"Futura Md BT";color:#663300'=
>the velvet room, 125 s. washington st<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D5 color=3D"#663=
300"  face=3D"Futura Md BT"><span  font-family:"Futura Md BT";color:#663300'=
>green bay, wi<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D4 color=3D"#663=
300"  face=3D"Futura Md BT"><span  font-family:"Futura Md BT";color:#663300'=
>21+ no cover | no dress code<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D4 color=3D"#663=
300"  face=3D"Futura Md BT"><span  font-family:"Futura Md BT";color:#663300'=
>$3 pints capn&#8217; and coke<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D4 color=3D"#663=
300"  face=3D"Futura Md BT"><span  font-family:"Futura Md BT";color:#663300'=
>$2 rolling rocks<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D4 color=3D"#663=
300"  face=3D"Futura Md BT"><span  font-family:"Futura Md BT";color:#663300'=
>$3 jagi bombs</span></font></span><span  class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D=
4 color=3D"#333300" face=3D"Futura Md BT"><span   color:#333300'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D6 color=3D"#333=
300"  face=3D"Futura Md BT"><span  font-family:"Futura Md BT";color:#333300'=
>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D6 color=3D"#cc9=
900"  face=3D"Futura Md BT"><span  font-family:"Futura Md BT";color:#CC9900'=
>OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO</span></font></span><span  class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D=
6 color=3D"#663300" face=3D"Bauhaus 93"><span   color:#663300'>OOO</span></f=
ont></span><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D6  color=3D"#333300" face=3D=
"Futura Md BT"><span  12.0pt;font-family:"Futura Md BT";color:#333300'><o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#=
333300"  face=3D"Futura Md BT"><span  font-family:"Futura Md BT";color:#3333=
00;font-weight:bold'>To be removed simply
reply with </span></font></b></span><span class=3DEmailStyle18><b><font size=3D=
5  color=3Dmaroon face=3DChiller><span  12.0pt;font-family:Chiller;color:mar=
oon;font-weight:bold'>persian bone crusher</span></font></b></span><span  cl=
ass=3DEmailStyle18><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#333300" face=3D"Futura Md BT"=
><span   color:#333300;font-weight:bold'> in the subject line</span></font><=
/b></span><font  color=3Dblack><span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack=
  face=3DArial><span  Arial'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack=
  face=3DArial><span  Arial'>&nbsp; <span>&nbsp;</span></span></font></span>=
<span  class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack><span  mso-bidi-fon=
t-size:12.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:=
  "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;  mso=
-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack=
  face=3DArial><span  Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack=
  face=3DArial><span  Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></span></p>

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From mw-raves-return-34067-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 12 20:41:15 2003
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Mailing-List: contact mw-raves-help@hyperreal.org; run by ezmlm
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Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:41:04 -0400
From: starlitefuNk@cs.com
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Subject: [mw] [FWD: Unity...August 2nd]

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To: MegaNatural@netscape.net, nickg_dj@yahoo.com, optiimo@yahoo.com,
        phatastic777@hotmail.com, smurfgirl5@hotmail.com, starlitefuNk@cs.com,
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Subject: Unity...August 2nd
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:28:24 +0000
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UNITY
August 2nd, 2003

LIVE P.A.!!! Computer Controlled
Mid-West Acid Coalition, MN Vibe, Analogue Heaven
Hard Acid Techno

Diva D(Madison)
Poopiehead Productions / www.poopiehead.net
Acid Techno/Drum n Bass

Wobbler(Appleton) vs Filament(Appleton)
Drop Bass Network--------------Garbagegame
4 Table Techno Insanity!!!

Sunkissed(Oshkosh) vs Nick G(Madison)
Evolution Collective
Techno/Tech-House/Trance

Hecubus(Oshkosh) vs Nightshade(Oshkosh)
Funkenterprises, Abiotic--------------Evolution Collective
Drum n Bass

Arsenal(Wausau)
Hitmen DMP, MWM Productions
www.djteam.com
Drum n Bass

Derrick Hable(Oshkosh)
Curve
Techno/House

Denot 5(Menomine)
Euphoric Daydream Productions, Perverted Beats?
Acid/Tribal/Ghetto

Config(Oshkosh)
Todd's Gang, Dj Tanner
Goa/Trance

18 and up, MUST HAVE VALID ID!!!!!!
21 and up to consume
$7 before 10pm
$10 after 10pm
Event is located at Studio Hall(formerly The Eagles)
405 Washington Ave...Oshkosh, WI
www.studiohall.com
Any questions? Send us an email!

worldevolution23@hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail



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From mw-raves-return-34068-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 12 22:04:50 2003
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Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:22:13 -0500
From: atomly <atomly@atomly.com>
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Subject: Re: [mw] [FWD: Unity...August 2nd]

[starlitefuNk@cs.com]
> 

Content-Description: Forwarded Msg
> LIVE P.A.!!! Computer Controlled
> Mid-West Acid Coalition, MN Vibe, Analogue Heaven
> Hard Acid Techno

Whoa...  Larry!

I love that guy.

-- 
:: atomly ::

[ atomly@atomly.com : www.atomly.com ...
[ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 312.804.5389 ...
[ e-mail atomly-news-subscribe@atomly.com for atomly info and updates ...

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From mw-raves-return-34069-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 12 23:41:49 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?


chad wondered:
> ??

House party. My place.  Watching Casey B. get silly.  If you're in the 
area (Madison) lemme know!

gregory // old too, but not lame // dj lo


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From mw-raves-return-34070-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 13 04:15:05 2003
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To: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>, <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] DEA Uses RAVE Act to Shut Down Fundraiser

Arno and i want to smoke pot at summerfest so Bo Black gets arrested.  =
are you game tony?


----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: "Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>; "catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>; =
<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: [mw] DEA Uses RAVE Act to Shut Down Fundraiser



Ha, you know, I can't think of a better day to make a point of how
ridiculous this law is than using it to make a mess of every city's 4th
of july firework show.



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From mw-raves-return-34071-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 13 04:25:14 2003
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Thread-Topic: [mw] DEA Uses RAVE Act to Shut Down Fundraiser
Thread-Index: AcMxYkkwMNOAJTFZT3ysMpos9oHRSAAAHkhA
From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
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	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: RE: [mw] DEA Uses RAVE Act to Shut Down Fundraiser

I wonder if WI-NORML is interested in this at all - well, there's one
good way to find out.  Its not like summerfest can really be cancelled,
nor anyone can deny organizing it.

http://www.winorml.org

-t

-----Original Message-----
From: bill [mailto:drthundr@milwpc.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:15 PM
To: Tony Sebion; mw-raves@hyperreal.org

Arno and i want to smoke pot at summerfest so Bo Black gets arrested.
are you game tony?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: "Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>; "catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>;
<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: [mw] DEA Uses RAVE Act to Shut Down Fundraiser



Ha, you know, I can't think of a better day to make a point of how
ridiculous this law is than using it to make a mess of every city's 4th
of july firework show.





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From mw-raves-return-34072-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 13 14:29:34 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] DEA Uses RAVE Act to Shut Down Fundraiser


drthundr@milwpc.com wrote:
> Arno and i want to smoke pot at summerfest so Bo 
 > Black gets arrested.  are you game tony?

Why stop at Summerfest?

How about every Packer's Game?

I'd be game.  heh.

gregory // I demand that my lack of rights be exercised here, Officer 
Krupke!  Shutdown this game right now! // dj lo


> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
> Ha, you know, I can't think of a better day to make a point of how
> ridiculous this law is than using it to make a mess of every city's 4th
> of july firework show.





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From mw-raves-return-34073-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 13 15:45:40 2003
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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:45:20 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>,
 <osussdp@hotmal.com>,
 <kenya@adorerecordings.com>,
 <eric@prophetica.net>,
 <sonik@one.net>,
 <JasonCLaveck@aol.com>,
 <gabrielizm@hotmail.com>,
 <trueblue@queencity.com>,
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 <tristan_figueroa@nyc.com>,
 <jspontak@gcfn.org>,
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 <Zakee.Taylor@mail.state.ky.us>,
 <akellman2@comcast.net>,
 <us56@hotmail.com>,
 <MForbes79@aol.com>,
 <tranquil_eye@yahoo.com>,
 <downdeep80@hotmail.com>,
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 <jslack@columbus.rr.com>,
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Subject: [mw] Live PA & DJ Sets from Hempfest 2003 now available for download 

hi everyone,

Last weekend, MECHA Productions participated in the 16th Annual Columbus
Hempfest.  We provided a stage, soundsystem, lasers, and most importantly=
,
some of the best talent in the midwestern electronic music scene!  The
festival was a blast, with great sound all day and night.  Even better, w=
e
were able to record several of the best performances that day!  =


Download and Listen to them at:
http://www.mechamix.com/hempfestmixes.html

All the mixes have been digitally mastered and encoded into mp3, a high
quality, yet easy to download format.  They are availble for direct downl=
oad,
just a click away!  Currently there are 4 sets online, with 2 more to com=
e
soon.

The Lady Foursquare's dj mix is an energetic summertime house workout,
featuring one classic track after another.  Look out for the many turntab=
le
tricks she includes in her mix!  for more info on Foursquare, go to
www.divadjs.com/DJs/Foursqare/Foursqare.htm

Columbus favorite Scotty Boombox performed his own work, which blends hip=
hop
and downtempo genres with quirky samples, heartfelt melody lines, and ple=
nty
of live scratching.  for more info on Scotty, go to www.scottyboombox.com=


Ioba James, performing on a monster set up of 2 drum machines, 4 synths, =
2
samplers and more, played a richly layered IDM set.  With stuttering beat=
s and
booming basslines, his set is filled with a tormented beauty.

Prophetica's energetic, uplifting original trance will move you with poun=
ding
rhythms and electric synth lines.  From his cheeky remix of "Eye of the T=
iger"
to much deeper tunes, Prophetica's music will entrance and delight.  for =
more
info, go to www.prophetica.net   =


coming soon... the deep house of Infinite Grey & PSH, and some dirty rott=
en
breakcore by Def Leper.

peace,
sim*n kellman   =



DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34074-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 13 18:07:51 2003
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Thread-Topic: [mw] DEA Uses RAVE Act to Shut Down Fundraiser
Thread-Index: AcMxuCfs3NI7nKn/QPSTakXrIFpDCwAHnXEQ
From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: "Midwest Ravers \(shell therof\)" <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Spam-Rating: taz3.hyperreal.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N
Subject: RE: [mw] DEA Uses RAVE Act to Shut Down Fundraiser

http://www.plastic.com/article.html;sid=3D03/06/12/17362032;cmt=3D47

More of the same...
-t=20


-----Original Message-----
From: gregory trimper [mailto:trimperg@netscape.net]=20
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 9:30 AM
To: Midwest Ravers (shell therof)


drthundr@milwpc.com wrote:
> Arno and i want to smoke pot at summerfest so Bo
 > Black gets arrested.  are you game tony?

Why stop at Summerfest?

How about every Packer's Game?

I'd be game.  heh.

gregory // I demand that my lack of rights be exercised here, Officer=20
Krupke!  Shutdown this game right now! // dj lo


> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
> Ha, you know, I can't think of a better day to make a point of how
> ridiculous this law is than using it to make a mess of every city's
4th
> of july firework show.





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From mw-raves-return-34075-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jun 14 09:29:41 2003
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Message-ID: <20030614092935.98668.qmail@web41208.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 02:29:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Casey <partykidzproductions@yahoo.com>
To: modulate@necto.sat
Cc: MW <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: [mw] Tonight . June 14th . 2003

modulate . by on30ne . every saturday

                                    .

                   us mw mi ann arbor
                     516 east liberty
                                necto
                           [red room]

                                    .

                          n e i l   v

                               techno
                             12p - 2a
                              detroit
                  techno city records

                                   v.

                  j i m m y   h u n t

                               techno
                             12p - 2a
                              detroit
                  techno city records

        c a s e y   p u c h a l s k y

                       techno & house
                             10p - 2a
                            ann arbor
                               on30ne

                                    .

                            doors 10p
                               18+ $8
                               21+ $5
                      women by 11p $0

                                    .

       $1 vodka well drinks until 11p
           $2 rolling rocks all night
              shot specials all night

                                    .

                   future modulators:

                          legal alien

                                    .

                   former modulators:

                            ace deuce
                     adam francesconi
                        alastair todd
[2]                             anime
                                benny
                             darkcube
                            dj joshua
                          dj number 9
                         evil kniegro
                       garrett dillon
                             infinity
                        jeremy spoken
                       jonathan voigt
                             jon pape
                          kelly lynne
                        kruse kontrol
                       mathew boynton
                       robert textile
                           scott nutt
                          the equinox
                         tony trouble

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From mw-raves-return-34076-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jun 14 10:44:59 2003
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Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 03:44:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Casey <partykidzproductions@yahoo.com>
To: gregory trimper <trimperg@netscape.net>,
  "Midwest Ravers \(shell therof\)" <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] what are you up to this weekend?

I'm Casey B!

Or is that Casey P?

Hmmm...

--- gregory trimper <trimperg@netscape.net> wrote:
> 
> chad wondered:
> > ??
> 
> House party. My place.  Watching Casey B. get silly.
>  If you're in the 
> area (Madison) lemme know!
> 
> gregory // old too, but not lame // dj lo
> 
> 
>
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From mw-raves-return-34077-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 16 05:46:01 2003
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Message-ID: <20030616054556.29873.qmail@web13104.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:45:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: bobsled <on30ne@yahoo.com>
To: MW Raves <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: [mw] Realization

Trip the light fantastic.

'Lectronic music plays.

Richie Hawtin's Spastik.

All the live long day.

=====
\O/ one thirty one : believe the rumors
  \
  /\/
  \

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From mw-raves-return-34078-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 16 11:03:28 2003
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Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 04:03:05 -0700
From: "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: [mw] hi i'm new

I'm actually living in vancouver now, but i thought i'd check out the list
to see who's on there from back in the day.

peace. 

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From mw-raves-return-34079-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 16 12:45:12 2003
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From: "dan sharp" <kode_@hotmail.com>
To: on30ne@yahoo.com, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Bcc: 
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:45:03 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mw] Realization

No more drugs for you...

(0_o)


>From: bobsled <on30ne@yahoo.com>
>To: MW Raves <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
>Subject: [mw] Realization
>Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:45:56 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Trip the light fantastic.
>
>'Lectronic music plays.
>
>Richie Hawtin's Spastik.
>
>All the live long day.
>
>=====
>\O/ one thirty one : believe the rumors
>   \
>   /\/
>   \
>
>__________________________________
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>SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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From mw-raves-return-34080-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 16 15:57:38 2003
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Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:54:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: <becky@pubnix.org>
To: "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com>
cc: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <BB12F1F9.B36D%djpepper@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [mw] hi i'm new

i'm hoping to move that direction this summer (portland or seattle)... and
i'm from back in the day... pepper who? vrave pepper??


On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, pepper @ hotmail wrote:

> I'm actually living in vancouver now, but i thought i'd check out the list
> to see who's on there from back in the day.
> 
> peace. 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: mw-raves-help@hyperreal.org
> 

-- 
***

-Becky =)

becky@pubnix.org
http://www.pubnix.org/~becky

***


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From mw-raves-return-34081-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 16 16:14:33 2003
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Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:14:09 -0700
From: "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Message-ID: <BB133AE1.B3A6%djpepper@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [mw] hi i'm new

nah.. not the vrave pepper... although i know who you're talking about.
hehe. not VERY oldschool, interstellaroutback era. i was an indy kid
although i ventured out quite a bit in the mid ninties.



> From: <becky@pubnix.org>
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:54:58 -0500 (CDT)
> To: "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com>
> Cc: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: Re: [mw] hi i'm new
> 
> i'm hoping to move that direction this summer (portland or seattle)... and
> i'm from back in the day... pepper who? vrave pepper??
> 
> 
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, pepper @ hotmail wrote:
> 
>> I'm actually living in vancouver now, but i thought i'd check out the list
>> to see who's on there from back in the day.
>> 
>> peace. 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: mw-raves-help@hyperreal.org
>> 
> 
> -- 
> ***
> 
> -Becky =)
> 
> becky@pubnix.org
> http://www.pubnix.org/~becky
> 
> ***
> 
> 


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From mw-raves-return-34082-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 16 17:47:15 2003
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Message-ID: <20030616174713.23001.qmail@web12201.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:47:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com>, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: [mw] hi i'm new

*sigh*
 
I miss those days... minimal state, kingdom of the
blind, fantastic voyage etc.  Nothing in the past 5(or
more?) years seems remotely close to any of those
experiences.

-tad

--- "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com> wrote:
> nah.. not the vrave pepper... although i know who
> you're talking about.
> hehe. not VERY oldschool, interstellaroutback era. i
> was an indy kid
> although i ventured out quite a bit in the mid
> ninties.
> 
> 
> 
> > From: <becky@pubnix.org>
> > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:54:58 -0500 (CDT)
> > To: "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com>
> > Cc: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> > Subject: Re: [mw] hi i'm new
> > 
> > i'm hoping to move that direction this summer
> (portland or seattle)... and
> > i'm from back in the day... pepper who? vrave
> pepper??
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, pepper @ hotmail wrote:
> > 
> >> I'm actually living in vancouver now, but i
> thought i'd check out the list
> >> to see who's on there from back in the day.
> >> 
> >> peace. 
> >> 
> >>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail:
> mw-raves-help@hyperreal.org
> >> 
> > 
> > -- 
> > ***
> > 
> > -Becky =)
> > 
> > becky@pubnix.org
> > http://www.pubnix.org/~becky
> > 
> > ***
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 


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From mw-raves-return-34083-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 16 19:14:53 2003
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Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:14:28 -0700
From: "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com>
To: dan sharp <kode_@hotmail.com>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Message-ID: <BB136524.B3B7%djpepper@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [mw] hi i'm new

oh my god... fantastic voyage! one of the best parties!!!


> From: "dan sharp" <kode_@hotmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:51:10 +0000
> To: djpepper@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [mw] hi i'm new
> 
> 
> whoa.. Interstellar Outback... What a great party..
> 
> makes me kinda miss louisville..
> 
> ok, Im over it..
> 
> (0_o)
> 
>> From: "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com>
>> To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
>> Subject: Re: [mw] hi i'm new
>> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:14:09 -0700
>> 
>> nah.. not the vrave pepper... although i know who you're talking about.
>> hehe. not VERY oldschool, interstellaroutback era. i was an indy kid
>> although i ventured out quite a bit in the mid ninties.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> From: <becky@pubnix.org>
>>> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:54:58 -0500 (CDT)
>>> To: "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com>
>>> Cc: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>>> Subject: Re: [mw] hi i'm new
>>> 
>>> i'm hoping to move that direction this summer (portland or seattle)... and
>>> i'm from back in the day... pepper who? vrave pepper??
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, pepper @ hotmail wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm actually living in vancouver now, but i thought i'd check out the list
>>>> to see who's on there from back in the day.
>>>> 
>>>> peace.
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: mw-raves-help@hyperreal.org
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> ***
>>> 
>>> -Becky =)
>>> 
>>> becky@pubnix.org
>>> http://www.pubnix.org/~becky
>>> 
>>> ***
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: mw-raves-help@hyperreal.org
>> 
> 
> 


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From mw-raves-return-34084-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 16 20:20:45 2003
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From: JWeedShack@aol.com
Message-ID: <f.13904561.2c1f8096@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:20:38 EDT
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: [mw] Hi I'm new...

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Hey what's up everyone, not new to the list, but I never really say much.  So 
justed wanted to say high to all of you.  Love the info that I'm getting. 
Since I'm from Ft. Wayne IN.  I am very bored here.  No Scene whatsoever. I I 
love knowing what's going on around me so I have some options.  I will be more 
social...hee hee.  Take it easy everyone.

--part1_f.13904561.2c1f8096_boundary--

From mw-raves-return-34085-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 16 20:29:25 2003
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Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:28:59 -0700
From: "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] Hi I'm new...

is mad chiller still around?

> From: JWeedShack@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:20:38 EDT
> To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: [mw] Hi I'm new...
> 
> Hey what's up everyone, not new to the list, but I never really say much.  So
> justed wanted to say high to all of you.  Love the info that I'm getting.
> Since I'm from Ft. Wayne IN.  I am very bored here.  No Scene whatsoever. I I
> love knowing what's going on around me so I have some options.  I will be more
> social...hee hee.  Take it easy everyone.
> 


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From mw-raves-return-34086-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 16 20:52:44 2003
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From: JWeedShack@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:52:32 EDT
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: [mw] Mad Chiller

--part1_12c.2c8adfe3.2c1f8810_boundary
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tee hee.  Yeah Chad is still around.  LOL.  I talked with him not long ago.  
He is gonna help me get something together.  Not so much a protest.  But a 
"Festival" if you will.  To let people know that a "Rave" is not just about X, 
but it's the DJ...the Mix...The People.  DJ + People = Mix.
Anybody have any great themes?  Seeing that there's really not alot of 
anything happening in this area it's hard to find anyone serious enough to help out. 
 It's time to educate people on our music.  Our Generation.  Too many kids 
popping pills they know nothing about, let alone respect. 

--part1_12c.2c8adfe3.2c1f8810_boundary--

From mw-raves-return-34087-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 17 15:11:09 2003
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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:11:02 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: <JWeedShack@aol.com>,
 <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.0402.5.5)
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Subject: Re: [mw] Festivals (was Mad Chiller)

FESTIVALS ROCK!

glad to hear folks in other states are catching on to this.  i don't prom=
ote
or throw "raves" anymore because that format ends up attracting underage =
kids
on drugs, or nobody at all.  (which is worse, take your pick.)  however, =
i've
helped throw 2 festivals already this month, and am involved with 3 more =
this
summer.

A "festival" is defined as starting during the mid-day and running until
around midnight.  This is important because it changes the demographic, a=
nd
overall vibe of the event.  I try to book as many live electronic PA's as=

possible, since they are so much fun to watch as well as listen to.  Also=
,
since we usually get folks who aren't into electronic music, live PA's ar=
e
much more impressive to them.  I'm a DJ and i love DJ culture, but i thin=
k
part of educating folks about electronic music is to show them that real
people, from their own community, write and perform.  i want people to re=
alize
that electronic music is not just the domain of wax & turntables.  here i=
n
ohio we have many great live PA acts, and i try to showcase as many as
possible.  however, i do book 3-4 dj's per event as well.

We also have food (and when legal, alcohol) which helps people relax with=
out
getting too messed up.  Another crucial aspect of a festival is political=

action.  At this year's Hempfest, we had many guest speakers and informat=
ional
booths.  A festival should be outdoors, especially because it's the
summertime, but i can't see why you couldn't have a cool indoor festival,=

given the proper venue.  Finally, arts and crafts should be featured at a=
ny
good festival, with local artworks on display, lots of handmade stuff, an=
d my
favorite - huge grafitti peices painted right there on site.  we built a
simple 15'x50' wall for the guys to paint, and DAMN did they do some grea=
t
work.

The festivals i've helped throw this summer are Sweatbox and Hempfest.  Y=
ou
can check out live mixes and photos from Hempfest at
www.mechamix.com/hempfestmixes.html.  Coming soon is the Columbus Comfest=
, a
3-day festival, as well as the More Than Music Festival, and the Electron=
ic
Music Education $ Conservation Alliance's (EMECA) end of the summer festi=
val. =

For more info, please feel free to email me privately.

good luck!

peace,
sim*n =

 =


JWeedShack@aol.com wrote:
> --------------------------------------------- =

>	Attachment:=A0 =

>	MIME Type:=A0multipart/alternative =

> --------------------------------------------- =

> tee hee.  Yeah Chad is still around.  LOL.  I talked with him not long =
ago. =


> He is gonna help me get something together.  Not so much a protest.  Bu=
t a =

> "Festival" if you will.  To let people know that a "Rave" is not just a=
bout
X, =

> but it's the DJ...the Mix...The People.  DJ + People =3D Mix.
> Anybody have any great themes?  Seeing that there's really not alot of =

> anything happening in this area it's hard to find anyone serious enough=
 to
help out. =

>  It's time to educate people on our music.  Our Generation.  Too many k=
ids =

> popping pills they know nothing about, let alone respect. =

> =




DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34088-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 17 16:18:41 2003
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To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: [mw] R U ?


R U the pepper that spun jungle from Bedford ?


... since we are sharing ...

Teknosaurus 2 was my first real party, great way to start ... Deadly Buda, 
Frankie Bones, T1000, Lenny Dee

then I went to Decadence in Rockford for NYE ...
has there ever been a Live PA as good as Speedfreak ?





~NightShade~

email: dj@djnightshade.net
web: http://www.djnightshade.net

>From: mw-raves-digest-help@hyperreal.org To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org 
>Subject: mw-raves Digest 17 Jun 2003 08:21:46 -0000 Issue 1234 Date: 17 Jun 
>2003 08:21:46 -0000
>
>
>mw-raves Digest 17 Jun 2003 08:21:46 -0000 Issue 1234
>
>Topics (messages 34077 through 34086):
>
>Realization 34077 by: bobsled 34079 by: dan sharp
>
>hi i'm new 34078 by: pepper . hotmail 34080 by: becky.pubnix.org 34081 by: 
>pepper . hotmail 34082 by: Tad Dicks 34083 by: pepper . hotmail
>
>Hi I'm new... 34084 by: JWeedShack.aol.com 34085 by: pepper . hotmail
>
>Mad Chiller 34086 by: JWeedShack.aol.com
>
>Administrivia:
>
>To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: mw-raves-digest-subscribe@hyperreal.org
>
>To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: 
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>
>To post to the list, e-mail: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------- << 
>mw-raves_34077.ezm >> << mw-raves_34079.ezm >> << mw-raves_34078.ezm >> << 
>mw-raves_34080.ezm >> << mw-raves_34081.ezm >> << mw-raves_34082.ezm >> << 
>mw-raves_34083.ezm >> << mw-raves_34084.ezm >> << mw-raves_34085.ezm >> << 
>mw-raves_34086.ezm >>

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From mw-raves-return-34089-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 17 16:46:39 2003
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From: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:54:02 -0400
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

I must say... I like the number of Louisville references I'm seeing here
as of late... we are the forgotten mw-raves city usually...  had some of
the bangingest parties for awhile though... 93-97 were the years...

J

-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Nightshade [mailto:djdeadlynightshade@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:19 PM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: [mw] R U ?


R U the pepper that spun jungle from Bedford ?


... since we are sharing ...

Teknosaurus 2 was my first real party, great way to start ... Deadly
Buda, 
Frankie Bones, T1000, Lenny Dee

then I went to Decadence in Rockford for NYE ...
has there ever been a Live PA as good as Speedfreak ?





~NightShade~

email: dj@djnightshade.net
web: http://www.djnightshade.net

>From: mw-raves-digest-help@hyperreal.org To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org 
>Subject: mw-raves Digest 17 Jun 2003 08:21:46 -0000 Issue 1234 Date: 17
Jun 
>2003 08:21:46 -0000
>
>
>mw-raves Digest 17 Jun 2003 08:21:46 -0000 Issue 1234
>
>Topics (messages 34077 through 34086):
>
>Realization 34077 by: bobsled 34079 by: dan sharp
>
>hi i'm new 34078 by: pepper . hotmail 34080 by: becky.pubnix.org 34081
by: 
>pepper . hotmail 34082 by: Tad Dicks 34083 by: pepper . hotmail
>
>Hi I'm new... 34084 by: JWeedShack.aol.com 34085 by: pepper . hotmail
>
>Mad Chiller 34086 by: JWeedShack.aol.com
>
>Administrivia:
>
>To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
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>
>To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: 
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>
>To post to the list, e-mail: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>mw-raves_34077.ezm >> << mw-raves_34079.ezm >> << mw-raves_34078.ezm >>
<< 
>mw-raves_34080.ezm >> << mw-raves_34081.ezm >> << mw-raves_34082.ezm >>
<< 
>mw-raves_34083.ezm >> << mw-raves_34084.ezm >> << mw-raves_34085.ezm >>
<< 
>mw-raves_34086.ezm >>

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From mw-raves-return-34090-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 17 18:47:46 2003
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From: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:55:10 -0400
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

Right on...  Indy was bangin in 98... I remember there were lots of
promoter squabbles and the like... but that's what happens when a scene
gets real active...

I was too busy riding a Nasdaq IPO to do anything but work 80hrs a
week... so I didn't get to check it out first hand...

Who here was a fan of the MaXXimum Sound System?

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin, Marie [mailto:Martinm@uwosh.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 2:31 PM
To: 'John Busch'; 'mw-raves@hyperreal.org'
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

I remember Louisville giving some of our parties in Indy some stiff
competition in 98.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:54 AM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?


I must say... I like the number of Louisville references I'm seeing here
as of late... we are the forgotten mw-raves city usually...  had some of
the bangingest parties for awhile though... 93-97 were the years...

J

-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Nightshade [mailto:djdeadlynightshade@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:19 PM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: [mw] R U ?


R U the pepper that spun jungle from Bedford ?


... since we are sharing ...

Teknosaurus 2 was my first real party, great way to start ... Deadly
Buda, 
Frankie Bones, T1000, Lenny Dee

then I went to Decadence in Rockford for NYE ...
has there ever been a Live PA as good as Speedfreak ?





~NightShade~

email: dj@djnightshade.net
web: http://www.djnightshade.net

>From: mw-raves-digest-help@hyperreal.org To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org 
>Subject: mw-raves Digest 17 Jun 2003 08:21:46 -0000 Issue 1234 Date: 17
Jun 
>2003 08:21:46 -0000
>
>
>mw-raves Digest 17 Jun 2003 08:21:46 -0000 Issue 1234
>
>Topics (messages 34077 through 34086):
>
>Realization 34077 by: bobsled 34079 by: dan sharp
>
>hi i'm new 34078 by: pepper . hotmail 34080 by: becky.pubnix.org 34081
by: 
>pepper . hotmail 34082 by: Tad Dicks 34083 by: pepper . hotmail
>
>Hi I'm new... 34084 by: JWeedShack.aol.com 34085 by: pepper . hotmail
>
>Mad Chiller 34086 by: JWeedShack.aol.com
>
>Administrivia:
>
>To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
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>
>To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: 
>mw-raves-digest-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
>
>To post to the list, e-mail: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>mw-raves_34077.ezm >> << mw-raves_34079.ezm >> << mw-raves_34078.ezm >>
<< 
>mw-raves_34080.ezm >> << mw-raves_34081.ezm >> << mw-raves_34082.ezm >>
<< 
>mw-raves_34083.ezm >> << mw-raves_34084.ezm >> << mw-raves_34085.ezm >>
<< 
>mw-raves_34086.ezm >>

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From mw-raves-return-34091-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 17 20:56:04 2003
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Message-ID: <20030617205601.98995.qmail@web40203.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:56:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Laine <junglejunkey@yahoo.com>
To: mo-raves <mo-raves@hyperreal.com>, vibecomm <vibecomm@yahoogroups.com>,
  stl-underground <stl-underground@yahoogroups.com>,
  stl_raves <stl_raves@yahoogroups.com>, stljl@yahoogroups.com,
  stlraves <stl-raves@yahoogroups.com>, bk-stl@yahoogroups.com,
  Lee Burges <lburgess@renegade-inc.com>,
  kc pro rave <kc-prorave@egroups.com>,
  nebraska raves <ne-raves@world.std.com>, tn-raves@yahoogroups.com,
  mw-raves@hyperreal.org, indybassnet@yahoogroups.com,
  kc-nightlife@yahoogroups.com, kc-raves <kc-raves@egroups.com>
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Subject: [mw] Paradise Time Slots - This Saturday - STL

Midwest Collective presents..

PARADISE
this saturday. 06. 21. 2003
@ The Kastle | St. Louis, MO

Main Room:
 8:00 - 10:00 Bounce
10:00 - 11:00 Jiminy Kickit
11:00 - 12:45 Ron Carroll
12:45 - Close Dimitry

Second Room
 8:30 - 10:00 - Dienda
10:00 - 11:00 - Jim K
11:00 -  1:00 - Empress
 1:00 - Close - Nigel Richards

Boogie Lounge
 8:00 - 11:00 - Trevor Mathews + PDP
11:00 - 12:00 - D.A.R.B.
12:00 -  1:30 - Dankskii
 1:30 - Close - Tetsuo

More info: 
Directions + map available on http://boogieknights.net
314-567-2016

$17 presales available on boogieknights.net

$20 at the door. 

There will be a $2.50 surcharge for under 21. 

18+ to enter with valid state or military ID (no
exceptions), 21+ to drink. 

Doors open at 8:00pm, close at 3:00am


__________________________________
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

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From mw-raves-return-34092-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 17 21:54:02 2003
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From: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:01:17 -0400
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

I officially shook my ass off sometime in late 97...

musta left it somewhere by the decks 
	or maybe 7-11... 

cuz I didn't get it back
	till early 2000...

when I met a cutie who's shakin booty I truly found arousin...

but now she's gone...
and that's ok...

cuz now I don't forget to shake that muthafuka every god damn day...

<insert fatboys meets slickrick with a dash of rhazel esque beatbox
breakdown here>


-----Original Message-----
From: Martin, Marie [mailto:Martinm@uwosh.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 2:52 PM
To: 'John Busch'
Cc: 'mw-raves@hyperreal.org'
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

Word. I was too busy raving to work 80 hrs per week. *giggle*

-----Original Message-----
From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 1:55 PM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?


Right on...  Indy was bangin in 98... I remember there were lots of
promoter squabbles and the like... but that's what happens when a scene
gets real active...

I was too busy riding a Nasdaq IPO to do anything but work 80hrs a
week... so I didn't get to check it out first hand...

Who here was a fan of the MaXXimum Sound System?

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin, Marie [mailto:Martinm@uwosh.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 2:31 PM
To: 'John Busch'; 'mw-raves@hyperreal.org'
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

I remember Louisville giving some of our parties in Indy some stiff
competition in 98.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:54 AM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?


I must say... I like the number of Louisville references I'm seeing here
as of late... we are the forgotten mw-raves city usually...  had some of
the bangingest parties for awhile though... 93-97 were the years...

J

-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Nightshade [mailto:djdeadlynightshade@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:19 PM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: [mw] R U ?


R U the pepper that spun jungle from Bedford ?


... since we are sharing ...

Teknosaurus 2 was my first real party, great way to start ... Deadly
Buda, 
Frankie Bones, T1000, Lenny Dee

then I went to Decadence in Rockford for NYE ...
has there ever been a Live PA as good as Speedfreak ?





~NightShade~

email: dj@djnightshade.net
web: http://www.djnightshade.net

>From: mw-raves-digest-help@hyperreal.org To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org 
>Subject: mw-raves Digest 17 Jun 2003 08:21:46 -0000 Issue 1234 Date: 17
Jun 
>2003 08:21:46 -0000
>
>
>mw-raves Digest 17 Jun 2003 08:21:46 -0000 Issue 1234
>
>Topics (messages 34077 through 34086):
>
>Realization 34077 by: bobsled 34079 by: dan sharp
>
>hi i'm new 34078 by: pepper . hotmail 34080 by: becky.pubnix.org 34081
by: 
>pepper . hotmail 34082 by: Tad Dicks 34083 by: pepper . hotmail
>
>Hi I'm new... 34084 by: JWeedShack.aol.com 34085 by: pepper . hotmail
>
>Mad Chiller 34086 by: JWeedShack.aol.com
>
>Administrivia:
>
>To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
mw-raves-digest-subscribe@hyperreal.org
>
>To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: 
>mw-raves-digest-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
>
>To post to the list, e-mail: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
<< 
>mw-raves_34077.ezm >> << mw-raves_34079.ezm >> << mw-raves_34078.ezm >>
<< 
>mw-raves_34080.ezm >> << mw-raves_34081.ezm >> << mw-raves_34082.ezm >>
<< 
>mw-raves_34083.ezm >> << mw-raves_34084.ezm >> << mw-raves_34085.ezm >>
<< 
>mw-raves_34086.ezm >>

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From mw-raves-return-34093-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 17 23:54:13 2003
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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:54:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: John Busch <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

> Who here was a fan of the MaXXimum Sound System?

I think part of me is probably still stuck to that
soundsystem where ever it is now (france?).  I loved
(literally there may be some illegitmate children
around somewhere) the nice white cabinets behind the
black grill.

-tad

__________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34094-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 02:46:31 2003
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To: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>,
	John Busch <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
From: jen303@socket.net
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:46:25 GMT
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

I've always been a fan of the Turbo sound system.  I've never seen any other 
system literaly move my water bottle across the floor away from me!

Jen


> > Who here was a fan of the MaXXimum Sound System?
> 
> I think part of me is probably still stuck to that
> soundsystem where ever it is now (france?).  I loved
> (literally there may be some illegitmate children
> around somewhere) the nice white cabinets behind the
> black grill.
> 
> -tad
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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From mw-raves-return-34095-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 15:43:08 2003
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From: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:50:31 -0400
Message-ID: <000a01c335b1$593e3b40$6600a8c0@l33p>
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

Well... about 60% of the system is in Paris right now in storage :(...
the rest got scattered around clubs here in Louisville... most of which
I've lost track of now since they all went out of business...

I think few realize the pure quality of sound that system produced...
high volume, yes... but never ear damaging as french-e was the king of
multi-band compression and eqing... and those original gauss drivers,
which can no longer be purchased, are the smoothest sound loudspeakers
money can buy (or at least could then)...

God bless the French man since he put far more into that system than I
think he ever got out... and in the process gave little old Midwest
ravers a sound system that any east coast or European party kid would
have drooled over... then of course... today I still want to see if
dillinja can stop my heart with the valve system...

And yes... those speakers were sluts that got fucked by many people all
night long... and they loved it...

-----Original Message-----
From: Tad Dicks [mailto:sluck604@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:54 PM
To: John Busch; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

> Who here was a fan of the MaXXimum Sound System?

I think part of me is probably still stuck to that
soundsystem where ever it is now (france?).  I loved
(literally there may be some illegitmate children
around somewhere) the nice white cabinets behind the
black grill.

-tad

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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From mw-raves-return-34096-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 15:47:18 2003
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From: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:54:42 -0400
Message-ID: <000b01c335b1$eee7ad70$6600a8c0@l33p>
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

Speaking of floors... anybody ever go to parties at The Cannery in
Nashville when MaXXimum did sound?

When Larry would play DnB... the hardwood floors in there would visibly
take the shape of the bassline... one big ass sine wave usually...

I was just waiting for the nails to start popping out and the floor
boards flying...

Ahh... but bass would never hurt me... bass is my friend...
 

-----Original Message-----
From: jen303@socket.net [mailto:jen303@socket.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:46 PM
To: Tad Dicks; John Busch; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

I've always been a fan of the Turbo sound system.  I've never seen any
other 
system literaly move my water bottle across the floor away from me!

Jen


> > Who here was a fan of the MaXXimum Sound System?
> 
> I think part of me is probably still stuck to that
> soundsystem where ever it is now (france?).  I loved
> (literally there may be some illegitmate children
> around somewhere) the nice white cabinets behind the
> black grill.
> 
> -tad
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
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From mw-raves-return-34097-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 16:21:32 2003
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Thread-Index: AcM1tDqInYrK1BzSSXuYB2c76GO04wAATWmw
From: "Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>
To: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Spam-Rating: taz3.hyperreal.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

First of all no American should be saying god bless the French after the
UN mess not to mention Turbo Sound Rigs out of Big Stack FL. And Active
in Atlanta are second to none its just to bad no one rolls Turbo Sound
in the MW

Bill Spaulding
Systems Group
HMS Engineering


-----Original Message-----
From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:51 AM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?


Well... about 60% of the system is in Paris right now in storage :(...
the rest got scattered around clubs here in Louisville... most of which
I've lost track of now since they all went out of business...

I think few realize the pure quality of sound that system produced...
high volume, yes... but never ear damaging as french-e was the king of
multi-band compression and eqing... and those original gauss drivers,
which can no longer be purchased, are the smoothest sound loudspeakers
money can buy (or at least could then)...

God bless the French man since he put far more into that system than I
think he ever got out... and in the process gave little old Midwest
ravers a sound system that any east coast or European party kid would
have drooled over... then of course... today I still want to see if
dillinja can stop my heart with the valve system...

And yes... those speakers were sluts that got fucked by many people all
night long... and they loved it...

-----Original Message-----
From: Tad Dicks [mailto:sluck604@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:54 PM
To: John Busch; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

> Who here was a fan of the MaXXimum Sound System?

I think part of me is probably still stuck to that
soundsystem where ever it is now (france?).  I loved
(literally there may be some illegitmate children
around somewhere) the nice white cabinets behind the
black grill.

-tad

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com


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From mw-raves-return-34098-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 16:27:15 2003
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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:27:13 -0500
From: rbgrn <rbgrn@rbgrn.net>
To: Bill Spaulding <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>
Cc: John Busch <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Message-ID: <20030618162713.GA49108@rbgrn.net>
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Subject: Re: [mw] R U ?

UN Mess? Try US Mess.
Also, I know this horse has been dead for months and is barely
recognizable due to the sheer amount of beating he has taken post
mortum, but I really have a problem with people identifying all citizens
of a nation by the action or stance of the nation's leader. George Bush
is a total asshole. I didn't vote for him, I don't support his actions,
I think he's a total fucking moron unsuitable for any position of power
(including middle management), but 50% of the world is biased against me
because I get generalized with Bush as another one of those
inconsiderate cowboy americans. It sucks.

    -Rob

On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:21:28PM -0400, Bill Spaulding wrote:
> First of all no American should be saying god bless the French after the
> UN mess not to mention Turbo Sound Rigs out of Big Stack FL. And Active
> in Atlanta are second to none its just to bad no one rolls Turbo Sound
> in the MW
> 
> Bill Spaulding
> Systems Group
> HMS Engineering
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:51 AM
> To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?
> 
> 
> Well... about 60% of the system is in Paris right now in storage :(...
> the rest got scattered around clubs here in Louisville... most of which
> I've lost track of now since they all went out of business...
> 
> I think few realize the pure quality of sound that system produced...
> high volume, yes... but never ear damaging as french-e was the king of
> multi-band compression and eqing... and those original gauss drivers,
> which can no longer be purchased, are the smoothest sound loudspeakers
> money can buy (or at least could then)...
> 
> God bless the French man since he put far more into that system than I
> think he ever got out... and in the process gave little old Midwest
> ravers a sound system that any east coast or European party kid would
> have drooled over... then of course... today I still want to see if
> dillinja can stop my heart with the valve system...
> 
> And yes... those speakers were sluts that got fucked by many people all
> night long... and they loved it...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tad Dicks [mailto:sluck604@yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:54 PM
> To: John Busch; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?
> 
> > Who here was a fan of the MaXXimum Sound System?
> 
> I think part of me is probably still stuck to that
> soundsystem where ever it is now (france?).  I loved
> (literally there may be some illegitmate children
> around somewhere) the nice white cabinets behind the
> black grill.
> 
> -tad
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 
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-- 
Rob Green - http://www.rbgrn.net/
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From mw-raves-return-34099-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 16:34:05 2003
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Thread-Topic: [mw] R U ?
Thread-Index: AcM1tnm6P8qLWbt/SFex8cib2UL/bgAAPAAw
From: "Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>
To: "rbgrn" <rbgrn@rbgrn.net>
Cc: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Spam-Rating: taz3.hyperreal.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

I agree I hate to generalize but we are a country acting as a single
entity "United we stand divided we fall"!!!

Bill Spaulding
Systems Group
HMS Engineering


-----Original Message-----
From: rbgrn [mailto:rbgrn@rbgrn.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:27 PM
To: Bill Spaulding
Cc: John Busch; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [mw] R U ?


UN Mess? Try US Mess.
Also, I know this horse has been dead for months and is barely
recognizable due to the sheer amount of beating he has taken post
mortum, but I really have a problem with people identifying all citizens
of a nation by the action or stance of the nation's leader. George Bush
is a total asshole. I didn't vote for him, I don't support his actions,
I think he's a total fucking moron unsuitable for any position of power
(including middle management), but 50% of the world is biased against me
because I get generalized with Bush as another one of those
inconsiderate cowboy americans. It sucks.

    -Rob

On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:21:28PM -0400, Bill Spaulding wrote:
> First of all no American should be saying god bless the French after=20
> the UN mess not to mention Turbo Sound Rigs out of Big Stack FL. And=20
> Active in Atlanta are second to none its just to bad no one rolls=20
> Turbo Sound in the MW
>=20
> Bill Spaulding
> Systems Group
> HMS Engineering
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:51 AM
> To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?
>=20
>=20
> Well... about 60% of the system is in Paris right now in storage :(...

> the rest got scattered around clubs here in Louisville... most of=20
> which I've lost track of now since they all went out of business...
>=20
> I think few realize the pure quality of sound that system produced...=20
> high volume, yes... but never ear damaging as french-e was the king of

> multi-band compression and eqing... and those original gauss drivers,=20
> which can no longer be purchased, are the smoothest sound loudspeakers

> money can buy (or at least could then)...
>=20
> God bless the French man since he put far more into that system than I

> think he ever got out... and in the process gave little old Midwest=20
> ravers a sound system that any east coast or European party kid would=20
> have drooled over... then of course... today I still want to see if=20
> dillinja can stop my heart with the valve system...
>=20
> And yes... those speakers were sluts that got fucked by many people=20
> all night long... and they loved it...
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tad Dicks [mailto:sluck604@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:54 PM
> To: John Busch; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?
>=20
> > Who here was a fan of the MaXXimum Sound System?
>=20
> I think part of me is probably still stuck to that soundsystem where=20
> ever it is now (france?).  I loved (literally there may be some=20
> illegitmate children around somewhere) the nice white cabinets behind=20
> the black grill.
>=20
> -tad
>=20
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
>=20
>=20
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: mw-raves-help@hyperreal.org
>=20
>=20
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: mw-raves-help@hyperreal.org

--=20
Rob Green - http://www.rbgrn.net/
GPG Public Key available at http://www.rbgrn.net/rbgrn-gpg.key

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From mw-raves-return-34100-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 16:36:25 2003
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From: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:43:49 -0400
Message-ID: <000201c335b8$cb4c0f80$6600a8c0@l33p>
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

"The French Man" is one of the endearing ways I and many others refer to
French-e a.k.a. Davis Bassan, former owner and operator of MaXXimum
Sound Lights...  not the French people... I try to stay away from gross
political and cultural generalizations when talking about sound
systems...

as far as Turbo sound systems go... yeah they are bad no doubt... but
they didn't exist during the time period I was referring to... my whole
point was that MaXXimum provided a quality level of sound to a huge
number of Midwest, eastern, and southern parties that no one else could
or would, during the years that I think many remember as the golden age
of Midwest parties... yes Diversified may have been louder... but that
came with distortion and ear damage... something "The French Man" would
not tolerate just for the sake of immediate crowd and promoter
gratification...

btw.. god bless everyone, French, Iraqi, American, Chinese, and
Guatemalan included...


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Spaulding [mailto:bspaulding@hmscollc.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:34 PM
To: rbgrn
Cc: John Busch; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

I agree I hate to generalize but we are a country acting as a single
entity "United we stand divided we fall"!!!

Bill Spaulding
Systems Group
HMS Engineering


-----Original Message-----
From: rbgrn [mailto:rbgrn@rbgrn.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:27 PM
To: Bill Spaulding
Cc: John Busch; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [mw] R U ?


UN Mess? Try US Mess.
Also, I know this horse has been dead for months and is barely
recognizable due to the sheer amount of beating he has taken post
mortum, but I really have a problem with people identifying all citizens
of a nation by the action or stance of the nation's leader. George Bush
is a total asshole. I didn't vote for him, I don't support his actions,
I think he's a total fucking moron unsuitable for any position of power
(including middle management), but 50% of the world is biased against me
because I get generalized with Bush as another one of those
inconsiderate cowboy americans. It sucks.

    -Rob

On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:21:28PM -0400, Bill Spaulding wrote:
> First of all no American should be saying god bless the French after 
> the UN mess not to mention Turbo Sound Rigs out of Big Stack FL. And 
> Active in Atlanta are second to none its just to bad no one rolls 
> Turbo Sound in the MW
> 
> Bill Spaulding
> Systems Group
> HMS Engineering
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:51 AM
> To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?
> 
> 
> Well... about 60% of the system is in Paris right now in storage :(...

> the rest got scattered around clubs here in Louisville... most of 
> which I've lost track of now since they all went out of business...
> 
> I think few realize the pure quality of sound that system produced... 
> high volume, yes... but never ear damaging as french-e was the king of

> multi-band compression and eqing... and those original gauss drivers, 
> which can no longer be purchased, are the smoothest sound loudspeakers

> money can buy (or at least could then)...
> 
> God bless the French man since he put far more into that system than I

> think he ever got out... and in the process gave little old Midwest 
> ravers a sound system that any east coast or European party kid would 
> have drooled over... then of course... today I still want to see if 
> dillinja can stop my heart with the valve system...
> 
> And yes... those speakers were sluts that got fucked by many people 
> all night long... and they loved it...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tad Dicks [mailto:sluck604@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:54 PM
> To: John Busch; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?
> 
> > Who here was a fan of the MaXXimum Sound System?
> 
> I think part of me is probably still stuck to that soundsystem where 
> ever it is now (france?).  I loved (literally there may be some 
> illegitmate children around somewhere) the nice white cabinets behind 
> the black grill.
> 
> -tad
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
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> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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-- 
Rob Green - http://www.rbgrn.net/
GPG Public Key available at http://www.rbgrn.net/rbgrn-gpg.key

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From mw-raves-return-34101-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 16:44:54 2003
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From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Spam-Rating: taz3.hyperreal.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

I'm sorry, I'm barely reading this, is GW Bush installing Turbo Sound
somewhere in France?

sarcastically yours,
stevie t


-----Original Message-----
From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:44 AM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org

"The French Man" is one of the endearing ways I and many others refer to
French-e a.k.a. Davis Bassan, former owner and operator of MaXXimum
Sound Lights...  not the French people... I try to stay away from gross
political and cultural generalizations when talking about sound
systems... <some stuff about some things>

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From mw-raves-return-34102-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 17:07:18 2003
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From: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:14:41 -0400
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

Yes, he's mounting it to the Eiffel tower... and it only produces the
brown noise...

I heard Daft Punk is gonna highjack it though and drown out the
warmongers and their shitty music...

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Sebion [mailto:tony@sebion.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:44 PM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

I'm sorry, I'm barely reading this, is GW Bush installing Turbo Sound
somewhere in France?

sarcastically yours,
stevie t


-----Original Message-----
From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:44 AM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org

"The French Man" is one of the endearing ways I and many others refer to
French-e a.k.a. Davis Bassan, former owner and operator of MaXXimum
Sound Lights...  not the French people... I try to stay away from gross
political and cultural generalizations when talking about sound
systems... <some stuff about some things>

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From mw-raves-return-34103-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 17:17:27 2003
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From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

I'll bet that'd be a lot more fun if it was 1998 right now.

Wait, we liked france then, right?  And they pitied us...

-t=20


-----Original Message-----
From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:15 PM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org

Yes, he's mounting it to the Eiffel tower... and it only produces the
brown noise...

I heard Daft Punk is gonna highjack it though and drown out the
warmongers and their shitty music...

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Sebion [mailto:tony@sebion.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:44 PM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

I'm sorry, I'm barely reading this, is GW Bush installing Turbo Sound
somewhere in France?

sarcastically yours,
stevie t


-----Original Message-----
From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:44 AM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org

"The French Man" is one of the endearing ways I and many others refer to
French-e a.k.a. Davis Bassan, former owner and operator of MaXXimum
Sound Lights...  not the French people... I try to stay away from gross
political and cultural generalizations when talking about sound
systems... <some stuff about some things>

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From mw-raves-return-34104-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 17:23:31 2003
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Message-ID: <20030618172329.94890.qmail@web12207.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:23:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: Tony Sebion <tony@sebion.com>, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <4FA0D34F58BB0445AF7428ADD2CB7FA03C8D@sagittarius.gorhamstreet.net>
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

What I'm sure were all dying to know is... where do
the Canadians and the Burst sound system stand on
this?

Well they are working on a diplomatic solution to ease
the tension between the war mongering turbo sound and
the elitist snobby maxximum sound.  Meanwhile all the
B&W alien technology pod speakers are being held in an
undisclosed location near Dayton Ohio.

*yawn* why cant we wax nostalgic with out some jack
ass bringing politics into the thread?

-tad
--- Tony Sebion <tony@sebion.com> wrote:
> I'll bet that'd be a lot more fun if it was 1998
> right now.
> 
> Wait, we liked france then, right?  And they pitied
> us...
> 
> -t 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:15 PM
> To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> 
> Yes, he's mounting it to the Eiffel tower... and it
> only produces the
> brown noise...
> 
> I heard Daft Punk is gonna highjack it though and
> drown out the
> warmongers and their shitty music...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Sebion [mailto:tony@sebion.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:44 PM
> To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm barely reading this, is GW Bush
> installing Turbo Sound
> somewhere in France?
> 
> sarcastically yours,
> stevie t
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:44 AM
> To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> 
> "The French Man" is one of the endearing ways I and
> many others refer to
> French-e a.k.a. Davis Bassan, former owner and
> operator of MaXXimum
> Sound Lights...  not the French people... I try to
> stay away from gross
> political and cultural generalizations when talking
> about sound
> systems... <some stuff about some things>
> 
>
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> mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
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> mw-raves-help@hyperreal.org
> 
> 
>
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From mw-raves-return-34105-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 17:31:52 2003
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From: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:39:16 -0400
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

Elitist and snobby... maybe...  but we also have great food and really
loose women!

And... no... as usual... no-one is really concerned with the Canadians
take on all this... their contributing force of 17 ice fishing shacks
and 100 plaid flannel uniforms were not real useful during the Suez
crisis... but thanks anyway eh?



-----Original Message-----
From: Tad Dicks [mailto:sluck604@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 1:23 PM
To: Tony Sebion; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

What I'm sure were all dying to know is... where do
the Canadians and the Burst sound system stand on
this?

Well they are working on a diplomatic solution to ease
the tension between the war mongering turbo sound and
the elitist snobby maxximum sound.  Meanwhile all the
B&W alien technology pod speakers are being held in an
undisclosed location near Dayton Ohio.

*yawn* why cant we wax nostalgic with out some jack
ass bringing politics into the thread?

-tad
--- Tony Sebion <tony@sebion.com> wrote:
> I'll bet that'd be a lot more fun if it was 1998
> right now.
> 
> Wait, we liked france then, right?  And they pitied
> us...
> 
> -t 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:15 PM
> To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> 
> Yes, he's mounting it to the Eiffel tower... and it
> only produces the
> brown noise...
> 
> I heard Daft Punk is gonna highjack it though and
> drown out the
> warmongers and their shitty music...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Sebion [mailto:tony@sebion.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:44 PM
> To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm barely reading this, is GW Bush
> installing Turbo Sound
> somewhere in France?
> 
> sarcastically yours,
> stevie t
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:44 AM
> To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> 
> "The French Man" is one of the endearing ways I and
> many others refer to
> French-e a.k.a. Davis Bassan, former owner and
> operator of MaXXimum
> Sound Lights...  not the French people... I try to
> stay away from gross
> political and cultural generalizations when talking
> about sound
> systems... <some stuff about some things>
> 
>
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From mw-raves-return-34106-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 17:33:00 2003
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From: JayPee <jaypee@drunkenmasters.org>
To: mw-raves <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] R U ?


On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 11:34  AM, Bill Spaulding wrote:

> I agree I hate to generalize but we are a country acting as a single
> entity "United we stand divided we fall"!!!


Stevie?  Is this the new and improved you?  MY GOD!  WHAT DID THE CIA  
DO TO YOU?


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---------------------------
"You must always be intoxicated. It is the key to all: the one  
question. In order not to feel the horrible burden of Time breaking
your back and bending you toward the earth, you must become drunk,  
without truce.  But on what? On wine, poetry, or virtue,
as you wish. But you must become drunk."
												-Baudelaire
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---------------------------
JayPee
DrunkenMasters
Audio, Visual, and Technical Annihilationists
ICQ:  21427740      -     AIM: JAYdrunkenPEE


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From mw-raves-return-34107-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 17:45:40 2003
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Thread-Topic: [mw] R U ?
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From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

Ahem,

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=3Dhv&id=3D1808476825&cf=3Dinfo&intl=3Dca
http://www.moviequotes.com/fullquote.cgi?qnum=3D17463

Yeah, and I think america jr. is pretty insigificant.  "We"*** should
just take them over so people quit asking us about them.

ah, i think this is a troll,
-t

*** - why don't we invent a new pronoun that means "an organization I
belong to (possibly accidently or just by ethnic or geographic
association) where I would normally use 'we', but its views do not
specifially represent me and maybe not even anyone I know or have ever
known".  How about "Ne"?  Lets use it in a few sentences.

Ne attacked Iraq looking for WMD that may or may not exist.
With all other factors being equal, ne pays women a lower wage for work.
When U.S. citizens are polled, it seems that only ne are available to
answer the questions.





=20


-----Original Message-----
From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:39 PM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org

Elitist and snobby... maybe...  but we also have great food and really
loose women!

And... no... as usual... no-one is really concerned with the Canadians
take on all this... their contributing force of 17 ice fishing shacks
and 100 plaid flannel uniforms were not real useful during the Suez
crisis... but thanks anyway eh?


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From mw-raves-return-34108-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 17:57:52 2003
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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:57:46 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.0402.5.6)
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?]

aside from the comments of flag & mullet-waving asshats, i do beleive the=
re is
a sound company that uses Turbosound equipment here in Ohio, based out of=

Cleveland.  They did 3 rooms of Turbo at Wishing Well's "Winter Wonderlan=
d 2"
rave last winter, putting my own 4th room PA system to shame.  buuuut, i =
think
HK Audio gear (especially the active stuff) could give Turbo Sound a run =
for
its money.

-sim*n


DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34109-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 18:04:38 2003
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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:04:06 -0700
From: "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com>
To: John Busch <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] R U ?

vancouver's got some hot chicks tho..

> From: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>
> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:39:16 -0400
> To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?
> 
> And... no... as usual... no-one is really concerned with the Canadians
> take on all this... their contributing force of 17 ice fishing shacks
> and 100 plaid flannel uniforms were not real useful during the Suez
> crisis... but thanks anyway eh?


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From mw-raves-return-34110-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 18:06:20 2003
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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:06:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Rev. Jeffrey Paul" <sneak@datavibe.net>
To: Tony Sebion <tony@sebion.com>
Cc: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <4FA0D34F58BB0445AF7428ADD2CB7FA03C90@sagittarius.gorhamstreet.net>
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Tony Sebion wrote:
> *** - why don't we invent a new pronoun that means "an organization I
> belong to (possibly accidently or just by ethnic or geographic
> association) where I would normally use 'we', but its views do not
> specifially represent me and maybe not even anyone I know or have ever
> known".  How about "Ne"?  Lets use it in a few sentences.
>
> Ne attacked Iraq looking for WMD that may or may not exist.
> With all other factors being equal, ne pays women a lower wage for work.
> When U.S. citizens are polled, it seems that only ne are available to
> answer the questions.


BRING ME A SHRUBBERY!!@#

(sorry, I had to.)

-j

--
--------------------------------------------------------
 Rev. Jeffrey Paul    -datavibe-     sneak@datavibe.net
   aim:x736e65616b   pgp:0x15FA257E   phone:8777483467
    70E0 B896 D5F3 8BF4 4BEE 2CCF EF2F BA28 15FA 257E
--------------------------------------------------------

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From mw-raves-return-34111-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 18:31:11 2003
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From: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:38:34 -0400
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?


I've heard.

I however am now currently in the land of beautiful horses and fast
women... it has it's upsides if you wear your goggles...

-----Original Message-----
From: pepper @ hotmail [mailto:djpepper@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:04 PM
To: John Busch; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [mw] R U ?

vancouver's got some hot chicks tho..

> From: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>
> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:39:16 -0400
> To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?
> 
> And... no... as usual... no-one is really concerned with the Canadians
> take on all this... their contributing force of 17 ice fishing shacks
> and 100 plaid flannel uniforms were not real useful during the Suez
> crisis... but thanks anyway eh?



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From mw-raves-return-34112-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 19:34:48 2003
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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:34:45 +0000
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Subject: [mw] Ahem..


http://www.smithjones.net/Pics/Thats_My_Boy.mpeg

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From mw-raves-return-34113-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 19:56:30 2003
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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:56:07 -0500
From: Tom Sprynczynatyk <spry0004@tc.umn.edu>
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Subject: Re: [mw] Ahem..

That wouldn't be quite so disturbing except that I recently read a Salon 
piece about people's babies masturbating to orgasm.  Appearently I was 
quite the late bloomer, having not figured such things out until I was 
11 or 12.  I've more than made up for it since though.


Tom


dan sharp wrote:

>
> http://www.smithjones.net/Pics/Thats_My_Boy.mpeg
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
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> .
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From mw-raves-return-34114-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 20:52:10 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] Ahem..

Thanks Tom... For sharing that with the class you have just entered me into 
at least 6 more years of therapy... Some things need to be left alone...

  Geeeeezzzzzz


  (0_o)


>From: Tom Sprynczynatyk <spry0004@tc.umn.edu>
>To: dan sharp <kode_@hotmail.com>
>CC: jaybusch@bellsouth.net,    mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>Subject: Re: [mw] Ahem..
>Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:56:07 -0500
>
>That wouldn't be quite so disturbing except that I recently read a Salon 
>piece about people's babies masturbating to orgasm.  Appearently I was 
>quite the late bloomer, having not figured such things out until I was 11 
>or 12.  I've more than made up for it since though.
>
>
>Tom
>
>
>dan sharp wrote:
>
>>
>>http://www.smithjones.net/Pics/Thats_My_Boy.mpeg
>>
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From mw-raves-return-34115-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 18 22:15:04 2003
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Subject: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


I'm going to apologize in advance for what might
be considered political spam, but I really think
it's important that the rave communities around
the US become aware of Dennis Kucinich.  Kucinich
is the only major party political candidate for
President who has taken a firm stand against the
War on Drugs.

If the rave communities want a President who will
scale back the War on Drugs, then it is critical
that Dennis Kucinich get the Democratic Party's
nomination for the Presidency in 2004.  One thing
that will help Kucinich achieve this is the support
of an organization called Move On, which will give
a lot of money and exposure to the candidate that
Move On members like the most.

Move On members will be voting on candidates next
week.  I urge you to sign up as a Move On member
(which is free) today, so that you can vote in
Move On's election next week.  You can do this by
going to this URL: http://www.moveon.org/pac/reg/

Here is Kucinich's stand on the War on Drugs:

"A safe, free and just America is undermined, not
bolstered, by the costly and ineffective War on
Drugs.  While well-intentioned, this misguided
policy -- which emphasizes criminalization over
treatment -- has led to increased violent crime,
misdirected resources of law enforcement and
restricted Constitutional liberties.  Despite
billions spent yearly on the drug war, addiction
is up.  Our country must rethink a policy that
produces many casualties, but benefits only the
prison-industrial complex.  Non-violent drug
offenders often receive Draconian sentences,
tearing apart families."

The rest of Kucinich's platform can be summed up
with these 10 key points:

- Universal Health Care with a Single Payer Plan
- Full Social Security Benefits at Age 65
- Withdrawal from NAFTA and WTO
- Repeal of the "Patriot Act"
- Right-to-Choose, Privacy, and Civil Rights
- Balance Between Workers and Corporations
- A Renewed Commitment to Peace and Diplomacy
- Restored Rural Communities and Family Farms
- Environmental Renewal and Clean Energy

These points are talked about in more detail at
this URL:
http://www.kucinich.us/issues/issue_10key.htm

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From mw-raves-return-34116-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 02:27:59 2003
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From: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
References: <Law15-F151PHWHesx6h00065f91@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:34:17 -0500
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Subject: Re: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Davenport" <djrockridge@hotmail.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 5:15 PM
Subject: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


>
> The rest of Kucinich's platform can be summed up
> with these 10 key points:
>
> - Universal Health Care with a Single Payer Plan
> - Full Social Security Benefits at Age 65
> - Withdrawal from NAFTA and WTO
> - Repeal of the "Patriot Act"
> - Right-to-Choose, Privacy, and Civil Rights
> - Balance Between Workers and Corporations
> - A Renewed Commitment to Peace and Diplomacy
> - Restored Rural Communities and Family Farms
> - Environmental Renewal and Clean Energy

A fucking fascist no less.  He will tax everyone who works hard in college
to the hill.  I hate drug laws just as much as most here, but this guy will
take billions of dollars spent on jailing people and just use it (and maybe
even more) to treat people.  This country is heading to graveyard anyway,
maybe if this guy gets elected it will just take us there sooner.  That's
when happens when Democracy (i.e.: Rule by the majority) starts whipping
it's ass with the Constitution.


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From mw-raves-return-34117-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 03:20:58 2003
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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:23:28 -0400
From: David Burgis <burgisd@comcast.net>
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: [mw]help elect a President who is against the Drug War

On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 10:34  PM, Ryan wrote:
>
> A fucking fascist no less.  He will tax everyone who works hard in 
> college
> to the hill.
Um... what? First off, all he's said about taxes is that he will repeal 
the tax cuts that don't even affect the majority of Americans, and that 
he'll raise the Payroll tax on companies... not exactly taxing everyone 
to the hill. And I'd argue that out of all the major party candidates 
he's far and away the least fascist due to his professed belief in 
civil liberties, and curbing insane nationalism, and is basically as 
antithetical to Fascism as is possible in the establishment.

> I hate drug laws just as much as most here, but this guy will
> take billions of dollars spent on jailing people and just use it (and 
> maybe
> even more) to treat people.

Holy shit! What does he think he's doing!! Helping people and trying to 
eliminate the problematic parts of drug use while saving massive 
amounts of money down the road?! Hang him!

>  This country is heading to graveyard anyway,
> maybe if this guy gets elected it will just take us there sooner.  
> That's
> when happens when Democracy (i.e.: Rule by the majority) starts 
> whipping
> it's ass with the Constitution.

Well yeah, that's what's been happening for the last 20 years under 
Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Shrub--ignoring basic laws and human rights 
in the country and instead raising the military and cutting taxes. 
Kucinich is the only Democrat who has been opposed to the Patriot Act 
(aka "Let's Eliminate the Constitution") from the start, and is in 
favor of expanding freedoms to the majority of Americans.

But while the Democratic Leadership Council is in control, there's no 
way that Kucinich will win the primary. So don't forget, when the 
Democrats nominate Lieberman/Dean/Kerry there's still another choice: a 
party that will run a real liberal, the Green Party.

-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34118-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 12:07:43 2003
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From: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:14:58 -0500
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Subject: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Burgis" <burgisd@comcast.net>
> To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

> Um... what? First off, all he's said about taxes is that he will repeal
> the tax cuts that don't even affect the majority of Americans, and that
> he'll raise the Payroll tax on companies... not exactly taxing everyone
> to the hill. And I'd argue that out of all the major party candidates
> he's far and away the least fascist due to his professed belief in
> civil liberties, and curbing insane nationalism, and is basically as
> antithetical to Fascism as is possible in the establishment.

Bush has given the Democrates the fire they need with his tax cut.  Now they
can just talk about repealing the tax cut, instead of telling the sheeple
how they are really going to pay for their socialist programs.

> Holy shit! What does he think he's doing!! Helping people and trying to
> eliminate the problematic parts of drug use while saving massive
> amounts of money down the road?! Hang him!

If he wants to help people, then he can use _HIS_ money.  If you want to
help people, you can give _YOUR_ money.  I do agree with you, those who
steal do need to be hanged.

> So don't forget, when the Democrats nominate Lieberman/Dean/Kerry there's
> still another choice: a  party that will run a real liberal, the Green
> Party.

The Green Party?  Are you fucking kidding me!!  If they get elected I am
staying at my current whopping salary of $30K/year.  I will just quit going
to school to do any better.  Anyone making over $50K year will be screwed
over under the Green Socialist tax system.  Better to fuck around, smoke
dope all day, and let all the Green suckers pay for your bastard kids.  The
Green's will get us into the graveyard in about a year or so.  Maybe I
should vote for them, they might actually bring about the revolution to turn
this country back into a republic.



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From mw-raves-return-34119-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 12:12:13 2003
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Message-ID: <20030619121211.45314.qmail@web12207.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 05:12:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: Ryan <ryry317@pobox.com>, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <001201c3365c$667d3a80$389cde0c@Keller>
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

Gnome? dwarf? an elf? no... its a Troll! 

no one can really be this retarded, can they?


-tad

--- Ryan <ryry317@pobox.com> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Burgis" <burgisd@comcast.net>
> > To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: [mw] help elect a President who is
> against the Drug War
> 
> > Um... what? First off, all he's said about taxes
> is that he will repeal
> > the tax cuts that don't even affect the majority
> of Americans, and that
> > he'll raise the Payroll tax on companies... not
> exactly taxing everyone
> > to the hill. And I'd argue that out of all the
> major party candidates
> > he's far and away the least fascist due to his
> professed belief in
> > civil liberties, and curbing insane nationalism,
> and is basically as
> > antithetical to Fascism as is possible in the
> establishment.
> 
> Bush has given the Democrates the fire they need
> with his tax cut.  Now they
> can just talk about repealing the tax cut, instead
> of telling the sheeple
> how they are really going to pay for their socialist
> programs.
> 
> > Holy shit! What does he think he's doing!! Helping
> people and trying to
> > eliminate the problematic parts of drug use while
> saving massive
> > amounts of money down the road?! Hang him!
> 
> If he wants to help people, then he can use _HIS_
> money.  If you want to
> help people, you can give _YOUR_ money.  I do agree
> with you, those who
> steal do need to be hanged.
> 
> > So don't forget, when the Democrats nominate
> Lieberman/Dean/Kerry there's
> > still another choice: a  party that will run a
> real liberal, the Green
> > Party.
> 
> The Green Party?  Are you fucking kidding me!!  If
> they get elected I am
> staying at my current whopping salary of $30K/year. 
> I will just quit going
> to school to do any better.  Anyone making over $50K
> year will be screwed
> over under the Green Socialist tax system.  Better
> to fuck around, smoke
> dope all day, and let all the Green suckers pay for
> your bastard kids.  The
> Green's will get us into the graveyard in about a
> year or so.  Maybe I
> should vote for them, they might actually bring
> about the revolution to turn
> this country back into a republic.
> 
> 
> 
>
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From mw-raves-return-34120-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 14:50:38 2003
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X-USANET-Auth: 165.212.8.7     AUTO mechastudios@usa.net uwdvg007.cms.usa.net
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:50:29 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

stevie and mcCusty had a knack for being much more retarded, which is why=

trolls like this guy fail to get me riled at all.

one thing about the Green Party that has had me wondering... while I do b=
lame
them for GeeDub being in office now, I also recognize that the Democratic=

party has so far mostly been complicit in the Republican's raping of this=

country through their inability to address the strongholds of Republican
policy like the war & the subsequent WMD scandal.  =


i have definately drifted farther left than I was in 2000 (getting in som=
e
heated arguments with the Nader-voting girl I was dating at the time.)  i=
 am
left wondering if the Dems are going to bring anyone to bat against GeeDu=
b
that I can vote for in good conscience.  i am rapidly warming to Kucinich=
, but
I agree that it seems the Democratic party is not going to back this guy =
for
prez.  =


i have read a few articles about the current leaders of the Green Party, =
and
how they are struggling to decide whether or not to bring their own candi=
date
to the 2004 elections.  perhaps maybe if they agreed not to run in return=
 for
backing a very liberal guy like Kucinich, maybe the Dems would take him m=
ore
seriously...

anyone have some more thoughts on the correct "lefty" approach to the 200=
4
elections?

peace,
sim*n

ps - no, the answer is not "kill whitey" ;)

Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Gnome? dwarf? an elf? no... its a Troll! =

> =

> no one can really be this retarded, can they?
> =

> =

> -tad


DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34121-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 15:14:49 2003
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From: sarah m <laininbearsuit@yahoo.com>
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catnap <mechastudios@usa.net> wrote:

"anyone have some more thoughts on the correct "lefty" approach to the 2004
elections?"

peace,
sim*"  
*delurks* honestly i believe that the "correct" approach, lefty or otherwise in the upcoming and really in any campaign is to be as active as possible.  This means different things for different people - i mean if you're a single parent, or a fulltime student working full time, writing letters to your various representatives, talking to your friends and family about the issues, and simply voting may be a lot of activity.  if you're fortunate enough to have more time i think it's important to find a candidate and do whatever the limits of your time and checkbook will allow, and vote. voting is the most basic and most important action you can take.
 
Personally for the next presidential election i think i'm backing Dean and crossing my fingers for the primary.  Considering that healthcare is such a huge issue, having an MD in the white house might be an important thing.  Also i like his stand on all of the issues except for capital punishment - but even then he takes the approach that our justice and prison system is corrupt and needs to be revamped and special scrutinty needs to be used in cases that result in the death penalty - i can live with that.
 
Dennis Kucinich seems like a great candidate but his little shuffle on reproductive rights last year makes me nervous and makes me wonder if i can trust him to not only support the laws currently in place but to prevent further restrictions - especially with the probablilty that a supreme court justice will more than likely need to be appointed in the near future.
however he's coming to my area w/ Nader and i hope to get a chance to speak with him - we'll see what happens.
 
just my $0.02
s






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From mw-raves-return-34122-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 15:28:34 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

One thing I've always found very funny (in a dark way) is how people see 
the Republicans as the party of fiscal responsibility.  If you actually 
look at the numbers, you'll see that the Republicans spend just as much, 
if not more on the military than the Democrats do on social programs, 
and whereas Clinton put a ton of money towards paying down the defecit, 
Bush rushed to pass a tax cut not only when he thought he'd get a big 
budget surplus, but also again while the economic picture is still bleak.

For the record, I'm politically dead center (socially liberal, 
economically conservative, healthy dose of libertarianism), so I just 
take potshots at everyone.


Tom



Ryan wrote:

>Bush has given the Democrates the fire they need with his tax cut.  Now they
>can just talk about repealing the tax cut, instead of telling the sheeple
>how they are really going to pay for their socialist programs.
>  
>



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From mw-raves-return-34123-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 16:15:22 2003
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:15:13 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

Tom Sprynczynatyk <spry0004@tc.umn.edu> wrote:
>>One thing I've always found very funny (in a dark way) is how people >>=
see
the Republicans as the party of fiscal responsibility. =


my immediate response to that was, "WTF is he thinking, nobody in their r=
ight
mind could think that 3 million people out of work, a trillion dollar def=
icit,
and tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% of America represent 'fiscal
responsibility'."

and then i realized, yes there are people who see the Republicans as the =
party
of fiscal responsibility, and i need only to ask around my office to find=

those people.

so i guess i'll join you in some dark, ironic laughter. ;)

peace,
sim*n   =



DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34124-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 16:24:48 2003
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From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
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Subject: Re: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]]

sarah m <laininbearsuit@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Personally for the next presidential election i think i'm =

>>backing Dean and crossing my fingers for the primary.

could you post some more info on this guy, or a link where I could read m=
ore
about his platform?  i'm admittedly uninformed about him and would like t=
o
know more.

>>Dennis Kucinich seems like a great candidate but his little =

>>shuffle on reproductive rights last year makes me nervous =


do tell - i wasn't aware of his stance on reproductive rights.  can you
explain, or send a link to an article?  =


thank you so much for responding with such an intelligent reply.  it made=
 me
glad that i am still subbed to this what list!

peace,
sim*n


DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34125-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 16:58:23 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]]


Cant we all just put our pacifiers back in, apply some Vicks and have a big 
group hug?

All this anger is no good for the circle...


(0_o)

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From mw-raves-return-34126-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 17:02:04 2003
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catnap <mechastudios@usa.net> wrote:

"could you post some more info on this guy, or a link where I could read more
about his platform? i'm admittedly uninformed about him and would like to
know more."
 
with pleasure - this is from his official website:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=about_issues
 
in a nutshell he's pretty left which makes a lot of dems nervous because they feel he might be too left to be electable.  i personally feel that a candidate who has a spine is the only dem. candidate that will get people to the polls.  another presidential debate where "oh i agree with you.  i agree with you too" on numerous issues like we had w/Bush and Gore lulls everyone into thinking that their vote is irrevelant because you're getting seemingly similar results regardless of who wins - with Dean (and admittedly with Kucinich, and Kerry as well to some degree) that is far from the case.
 
Dean is an MD from vermont.  as such i find his perspective on many issues refreshing because his approach is different than that of most candidates.  he would like to repeal Bush's tax cut (which incidently i believe went into effect recently - at least that's what my paycheck says.  officially it benefits me by adding $4.40 to my income per month) and investing in a universal healthcare plan.  frankly with what i and most other middle income folks who make up the majority of the population, the goverment can keep that $4.40 - i'd prefer healthcare, thank you. his approach to reproductive rights is that it's a medical issue between a woman and her dr.  the gov. should stay out of it. on environmental issues he would return to backing the Kyoto protocal and spend more money researching alternative energy resources.  but you can get the lowdown on his site.  
 
there are 2 related issues that i'd like to hear him address - medical marijuana and the so-called drug war.  as a Dr. and someone who is critical of how our prison system currently operates, i'm inclined to believe that he would be fairly liberal on these issues but i don't know.  at the same time i think that pushing for these things needs to grow from the bottom up - grassroots campaigning is the only way to go and i would understand why a presidential candidate would shy away from speaking about such a volatile issue.




"reproductive rights. can you
explain, or send a link to an article? " - in reference to Kucinich
 
his main page is here: http://www.kucinich.net/
his commentary on reproductive rights is here: http://www.kucinich.net/issues/issue_rightsreproductive.htm
 
essentially he has had an anti-choice voting record up until last year when he claims that, "After hearing from many women in my own life, and from women and men in my community and across the country, I began a more intensive dialogue on the issue."  
 
considering that he is not a very young man, has spent a considerable amout of time in politics, and up until recently has cast votes detrimental to women's rights, i can not in good conscience support him.  it makes me nervous to think that a person who is so left and seems to have spent a great deal of time thinking about and formulating opinions on many difficult issues, who although he would never ever be in the position of a difficult, life-threatening, or unplanned pregnancy would decide that it is his responsibility to legislate what others do in that situation. and while he may support reproductive choice now, because of his past record i fear that he could justify restricting availibility/accessibility, while supporting the technical legality of roe v. wade. in my opinion it's too big of an issue to flip-flop on one year before a presidential race.

"thank you so much for responding with such an intelligent reply. it made me
glad that i am still subbed to this what list!"
 
that's sweet.  i'm flattered and glad i could be of help - if there's anything else i can dig up for you - let me know.
 
s

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From mw-raves-return-34127-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 18:34:00 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

>anyone have some more thoughts on the correct "lefty" approach to the 2004
>elections?

It prolly ain't gonna happen in our lifetime, but some should realize that 
left-right is NOT the only direction in the political spectrum...

http://www.lp.org/

I really like the model that the Libertarian Party has laid out, with a two 
dimensional political axis, showing the other two directions, Libertarianism 
and Authoritarianism. I personally fall in the centrist Libertarian range, 
just slightly to the left in the "World's Smallest Political Quiz." (See 
http://www.lp.org/quiz/)

If these guys have a decent candidate, I'm voting LP in 2004. If not, Dean 
sounds like someone that'll stir the pot quite a bit (though the odds are 
good that he'd be assasinated in his first year if he continues to be as 
controversial...)

L8R,
MItch


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From mw-raves-return-34128-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 18:42:00 2003
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From: MikeD <mikeyd@pubnix.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]]

> Cant we all just put our pacifiers back in, apply some Vicks and have a big 
> group hug?
> All this anger is no good for the circle...

only if you hook up a backrub and a seabreeze. ;)

-m


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From mw-raves-return-34129-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 19:32:31 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

--------------010905050901030803070405
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I'm quite libertarian in my views (I voted for Harry Brown in '96), 
however after spending quite a bit of time actually reading the 
Libertarian Party literature for a Poli Sci paper a few years ago, I 
came to the conclusion that they're a bunch of loonies with a strange 
hard-on for getting rid of the FDA.  To be fair, that was in '98 and 
they might be a little less fixated, but c'mon, that's the agency that 
keeps people from selling you poison and calling it medicine.  I keep 
hoping that either the Republicans or the Democrats will pick up some 
libertarian principles and I can find a party to call my own, but for 
the foreseeable future it's a choice between legislated political 
correctness on the left and legislated morality on the right.

Which reminds me, I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of the UPS van today, 
who will deliver something special as a present for my girlfriend.  Get 
yours now girls so that you never forget what John Ashcroft wants to 
peer into (and prosecute for).

http://www.cafeshops.com/warposter.3577811


Tom

DJMaytag wrote:

>>anyone have some more thoughts on the correct "lefty" approach to the 2004
>>elections?
>>    
>>
>
>It prolly ain't gonna happen in our lifetime, but some should realize that 
>left-right is NOT the only direction in the political spectrum...
>
>http://www.lp.org/
>
>I really like the model that the Libertarian Party has laid out, with a two 
>dimensional political axis, showing the other two directions, Libertarianism 
>and Authoritarianism. I personally fall in the centrist Libertarian range, 
>just slightly to the left in the "World's Smallest Political Quiz." (See 
>http://www.lp.org/quiz/)
>
>If these guys have a decent candidate, I'm voting LP in 2004. If not, Dean 
>sounds like someone that'll stir the pot quite a bit (though the odds are 
>good that he'd be assasinated in his first year if he continues to be as 
>controversial...)
>
>L8R,
>MItch
>
>
>  
>


--------------010905050901030803070405--


From mw-raves-return-34130-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 19:51:56 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

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that is too funny!  i want one!
 
but on a similar note i agree with you about libertarianism. on the surface it sound fabulous and on many issues, especially immigration and policies in regards to the internet, i mostly agree with them.  however  i find the blanket assumption that free market is a panacea to societal ills unbeleviable.  there are some other weird things like we shouldn't regulate environmental policy and hand over government land to the nature conservency or something similar and it's like great - but how are you going to do that?  plus if you're poor or become poor due to illness, job loss, etc., you're basically screwed, no healthcare, no food, shelter, or consideration.  
 
yikes!
 
s
 
Tom Sprynczynatyk <spry0004@tc.umn.edu> wrote:
I'm quite libertarian in my views (I voted for Harry Brown in '96), 
however after spending quite a bit of time actually reading the 
Libertarian Party literature for a Poli Sci paper a few years ago, I 
came to the conclusion that they're a bunch of loonies with a strange 
hard-on for getting rid of the FDA. To be fair, that was in '98 and 
they might be a little less fixated, but c'mon, that's the agency that 
keeps people from selling you poison and calling it medicine. I keep 
hoping that either the Republicans or the Democrats will pick up some 
libertarian principles and I can find a party to call my own, but for 
the foreseeable future it's a choice between legislated political 
correctness on the left and legislated morality on the right.

Which reminds me, I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of the UPS van today, 
who will deliver something special as a present for my girlfriend. Get 
yours now girls so that you never forget what John Ashcroft wants to 
peer into (and prosecute for).

http://www.cafeshops.com/warposter.3577811


Tom

DJMaytag wrote:

>>anyone have some more thoughts on the correct "lefty" approach to the 2004
>>elections?
>> 
>>
>
>It prolly ain't gonna happen in our lifetime, but some should realize that 
>left-right is NOT the only direction in the political spectrum...
>
>http://www.lp.org/
>
>I really like the model that the Libertarian Party has laid out, with a two 
>dimensional political axis, showing the other two directions, Libertarianism 
>and Authoritarianism. I personally fall in the centrist Libertarian range, 
>just slightly to the left in the "World's Smallest Political Quiz." (See 
>http://www.lp.org/quiz/)
>
>If these guys have a decent candidate, I'm voting LP in 2004. If not, Dean 
>sounds like someone that'll stir the pot quite a bit (though the odds are 
>good that he'd be assasinated in his first year if he continues to be as 
>controversial...)
>
>L8R,
>MItch
>
>
> 
>



---------------------------------
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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From mw-raves-return-34131-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 19:57:33 2003
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Subject: RE: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

I'd like to always vote libertarian (and do often), but there's as many
of them on the same power/ego trip as the republicrats.  If Russ
Feingold ran, I'd vote for him as many times as I could.

I wish bob dobbs would run for president: his campaign slogan could be
"believe in me, or kill me".  Now there's a campaign promise!

-t


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Sprynczynatyk [mailto:spry0004@tc.umn.edu]=20
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 2:32 PM
To: DJMaytag
Cc: mw-raves@hyperreal.org

I'm quite libertarian in my views (I voted for Harry Brown in '96),
however after spending quite a bit of time actually reading the
Libertarian Party literature for a Poli Sci paper a few years ago, I
came to the conclusion that they're a bunch of loonies with a strange
hard-on for getting rid of the FDA.  To be fair, that was in '98 and
they might be a little less fixated, but c'mon, that's the agency that
keeps people from selling you poison and calling it medicine.  I keep
hoping that either the Republicans or the Democrats will pick up some
libertarian principles and I can find a party to call my own, but for
the foreseeable future it's a choice between legislated political
correctness on the left and legislated morality on the right.

Which reminds me, I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of the UPS van today,
who will deliver something special as a present for my girlfriend.  Get
yours now girls so that you never forget what John Ashcroft wants to
peer into (and prosecute for).

http://www.cafeshops.com/warposter.3577811


Tom

DJMaytag wrote:

>>anyone have some more thoughts on the correct "lefty" approach to the=20
>>2004 elections?
>>   =20
>>
>
>It prolly ain't gonna happen in our lifetime, but some should realize=20
>that left-right is NOT the only direction in the political spectrum...
>
>http://www.lp.org/
>
>I really like the model that the Libertarian Party has laid out, with a

>two dimensional political axis, showing the other two directions,=20
>Libertarianism and Authoritarianism. I personally fall in the centrist=20
>Libertarian range, just slightly to the left in the "World's Smallest=20
>Political Quiz." (See
>http://www.lp.org/quiz/)
>
>If these guys have a decent candidate, I'm voting LP in 2004. If not,=20
>Dean sounds like someone that'll stir the pot quite a bit (though the=20
>odds are good that he'd be assasinated in his first year if he=20
>continues to be as
>controversial...)
>
>L8R,
>MItch
>
>
> =20
>




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From mw-raves-return-34132-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 20:26:31 2003
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From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Spam-Rating: taz3.hyperreal.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N
Subject: RE: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

A quick web search brings up some interesting stuff about Feingold and
the timing of some fairly significant news items.  Mind you, I'm not
suggesting they're related, but it is interesting.

( some from http://www.csindy.com/csindy/2002-09-05/cover2.html and
http://wwww.cam.net.uk/home/nimmann/peace/anthrax.htm )

July 25, 2001: first record of Http://feingoldfanclub.com to collect and
disperse information about a possible presidential candidacy.
Sept 6th (or so), 2001: Feingold starts cross-country campus tour to
explore the support for a 2004 presidential run. =20
September 11, 2001: duh, you know.
October 17th , 2001: 2 of Feingold's staff test positive for anthrax
October 25th, 2001: salon article recaps his stand vs. the
anti-terrorism bill he was alone in voting against in the senate
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/10/27/feingold/index_np.h
tml=20
Nov 27th, 2001: According to archive.org, last update of
http://feingoldfanclub.com (the domain is currently expired)

(time lapses as freedoms disolve)

March 1, 2003: http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/feingold.html states this
was the date he made a low-key announcement that he will not be running
for president in 2004 to re-run for his current senate seat.

Frankly, his wife probably would like him to stay alive - and that's
probably a good reason for her not to want him to run for president.

-t

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin, Marie [mailto:Martinm@uwosh.edu]=20
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 3:05 PM
To: Tony Sebion
Cc: 'mw-raves@hyperreal.org'

I love that man!
When I heard him speak in March, someone asked him when we would see
Feingold 2004 signs. He said, "Ask my wife! She'll leave me if I run!"
We booed.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Sebion [mailto:tony@sebion.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 2:57 PM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug
War]


I'd like to always vote libertarian (and do often), but there's as many
of them on the same power/ego trip as the republicrats.  If Russ
Feingold ran, I'd vote for him as many times as I could.

I wish bob dobbs would run for president: his campaign slogan could be
"believe in me, or kill me".  Now there's a campaign promise!

-t


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Sprynczynatyk [mailto:spry0004@tc.umn.edu]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 2:32 PM
To: DJMaytag
Cc: mw-raves@hyperreal.org

I'm quite libertarian in my views (I voted for Harry Brown in '96),
however after spending quite a bit of time actually reading the
Libertarian Party literature for a Poli Sci paper a few years ago, I
came to the conclusion that they're a bunch of loonies with a strange
hard-on for getting rid of the FDA.  To be fair, that was in '98 and
they might be a little less fixated, but c'mon, that's the agency that
keeps people from selling you poison and calling it medicine.  I keep
hoping that either the Republicans or the Democrats will pick up some
libertarian principles and I can find a party to call my own, but for
the foreseeable future it's a choice between legislated political
correctness on the left and legislated morality on the right.

Which reminds me, I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of the UPS van today,
who will deliver something special as a present for my girlfriend.  Get
yours now girls so that you never forget what John Ashcroft wants to
peer into (and prosecute for).

http://www.cafeshops.com/warposter.3577811


Tom

DJMaytag wrote:

>>anyone have some more thoughts on the correct "lefty" approach to the
>>2004 elections?
>>   =20
>>
>
>It prolly ain't gonna happen in our lifetime, but some should realize=20
>that left-right is NOT the only direction in the political spectrum...
>
>http://www.lp.org/
>
>I really like the model that the Libertarian Party has laid out, with a

>two dimensional political axis, showing the other two directions,=20
>Libertarianism and Authoritarianism. I personally fall in the centrist=20
>Libertarian range, just slightly to the left in the "World's Smallest=20
>Political Quiz." (See
>http://www.lp.org/quiz/)
>
>If these guys have a decent candidate, I'm voting LP in 2004. If not,=20
>Dean sounds like someone that'll stir the pot quite a bit (though the=20
>odds are good that he'd be assasinated in his first year if he=20
>continues to be as
>controversial...)
>
>L8R,
>MItch
>
>
> =20
>




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From mw-raves-return-34133-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 19 23:42:02 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw]help elect a President who is against the Drug War


Regarding taxes...

I heard Kucinich speak a few weeks ago, and here's what he said on the issue 
of how to pay for all this...

He is for a global nuclaer weapons ban.  Something huge portion of our 
current defense budget is spent on nuclear weapons and Star Wars systems 
that supposedly will defend us from nuclear weapons.  Cutting those 
nuclear-based defense programs will free up tens of billions of dollars that 
would then be spent on health care and education.


>From: David Burgis <burgisd@comcast.net>
>To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>Subject: Re: [mw]help elect a President who is against the Drug War
>Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:23:28 -0400
>
>On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 10:34  PM, Ryan wrote:
>>
>>A fucking fascist no less.  He will tax everyone who works hard in college
>>to the hill.
>Um... what? First off, all he's said about taxes is that he will repeal the 
>tax cuts that don't even affect the majority of Americans, and that he'll 
>raise the Payroll tax on companies... not exactly taxing everyone to the 
>hill. And I'd argue that out of all the major party candidates he's far and 
>away the least fascist due to his professed belief in civil liberties, and 
>curbing insane nationalism, and is basically as antithetical to Fascism as 
>is possible in the establishment.
>
>>I hate drug laws just as much as most here, but this guy will
>>take billions of dollars spent on jailing people and just use it (and 
>>maybe
>>even more) to treat people.
>
>Holy shit! What does he think he's doing!! Helping people and trying to 
>eliminate the problematic parts of drug use while saving massive amounts of 
>money down the road?! Hang him!
>
>>  This country is heading to graveyard anyway,
>>maybe if this guy gets elected it will just take us there sooner.  That's
>>when happens when Democracy (i.e.: Rule by the majority) starts whipping
>>it's ass with the Constitution.
>
>Well yeah, that's what's been happening for the last 20 years under Reagan, 
>Bush, Clinton and Shrub--ignoring basic laws and human rights in the 
>country and instead raising the military and cutting taxes. Kucinich is the 
>only Democrat who has been opposed to the Patriot Act (aka "Let's Eliminate 
>the Constitution") from the start, and is in favor of expanding freedoms to 
>the majority of Americans.
>
>But while the Democratic Leadership Council is in control, there's no way 
>that Kucinich will win the primary. So don't forget, when the Democrats 
>nominate Lieberman/Dean/Kerry there's still another choice: a party that 
>will run a real liberal, the Green Party.
>
>-----------------------------
>Dave
>http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com
>
>"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women not 
>yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to call the 
>attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are about to be 
>perpetrated on them."
>
>--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
>Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)
>
>
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From mw-raves-return-34134-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 00:16:31 2003
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From: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>
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Subject: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>
> To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 7:12 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

> > Gnome? dwarf? an elf? no... its a Troll!
> >
> > no one can really be this retarded, can they?
>
 I have been posting here since before 2000.  Only sheeple are retarded,
people like me actually see the light.   I am surprised so many people can't
see that taxation is nothing more than legalized stealing.


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From mw-raves-return-34135-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 00:30:17 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

----- Original Message -----
From: "catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

anyone have some more thoughts on the correct "lefty" approach to the 2004
elections?

Personally, if I were a lefty I would be voting Republican or Democrat....I
vote Libertarian when I can and really don't care to vote at all anymore.
It's sad the Constitution is dead in this country and there are some
(Michael Moore) who want to do their best to make sure it never returns.


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From mw-raves-return-34136-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 00:50:59 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Sprynczynatyk" <spry0004@tc.umn.edu>
To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


> One thing I've always found very funny (in a dark way) is how people see
> the Republicans as the party of fiscal responsibility.  If you actually
> look at the numbers, you'll see that the Republicans spend just as much,
> if not more on the military than the Democrats do on social programs,
> and whereas Clinton put a ton of money towards paying down the defecit,
> Bush rushed to pass a tax cut not only when he thought he'd get a big
> budget surplus, but also again while the economic picture is still bleak.

Even I, hater of Socialist Greens and Democrates, actually think Clinton's
only downfall was in gun control (most of his BS was just the opposit of
Republican BS).  (The AWB will sunest next year...I can't wait, hi-caps for
only $15!!!!).   I have to give Clinton props, he was the best of the
Socialist presidents in saving face.  He didn't cut welfare, but knew that
eventually the system would have to be cut or taxes raised.  We did he do,
he gave the responsibility to the states!!!!   That was awsome.  Most states
started placing some restrictions and now during the down market, they are
cutting services.  Thus, the states look bad...not the federal government.
I really didn't like the fact the man could lie and get away with it.  Of
course it's government so it doesn't surprise me one of the rats actually
gets away with a crime.  The Republicans have really tried to do their best,
but of course being Facist...they really are screwing up on freedom.  It
doesn't matter though, as long as the Republicans let the Assult Weapons Ban
die.....they will be seen as champions of freedom.


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From mw-raves-return-34137-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 00:55:33 2003
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From: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]


----- Original Message -----
From: "catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

my immediate response to that was, "WTF is he thinking, nobody in their
right
mind could think that 3 million people out of work, a trillion dollar
deficit,
and tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% of America represent 'fiscal
responsibility'."

and then i realized, yes there are people who see the Republicans as the
party
of fiscal responsibility, and i need only to ask around my office to find
those people.


After reading the post up to this one...I am thinking you are talking about
me.  Funny how I bash a Socialist and then you just assume I support other
Socialists that go by a different name.  The Republicans don't care about
the size of government anymore.  They want power, which is no different than
the Dems.


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From mw-raves-return-34138-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 01:03:30 2003
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:03:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Nelson <phossie@eds.org>
Reply-To: Jonathan Nelson <phossie@eds.org>
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


</lurk>

> people like me actually see the light.   I am surprised so many people can't
> see that taxation is nothing more than legalized stealing.

:D

don't like stealing, and do not care to fund the mechanisms that suppress
it...

...nasty, brutish, and short.  beginning to think the only fitting end for
a "self-made man" is spontaneous combustion.  hot damn.

in the dark,
 with a gun,
 yours,

-j

<lurk>




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From mw-raves-return-34139-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 01:06:49 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]]


----- Original Message -----
From: "sarah m" <laininbearsuit@yahoo.com>
To: "catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]]


>frankly with what i and most other middle income folks who make up the
majority >of the population, the goverment can keep that $4.40 - i'd prefer
healthcare, thank >you.

Problem is that $4.40 isn't going to pay for the healthcare.  It's going to
take much more than that.  I know, I know....tax the rich and those who
worked hard in college and school.  A high tax bracket should be their
reward for such hard work.  I hate to tell you this, but _many_ of my
friends who are looking at a six figure income promotion in 5-10 years would
gladly stay in the middle class if such a tax hike goes into effect.  If the
difference in take home pay between making $100K and $45K is only $10K more
take home....I will bet anyone here that many people will decide to screw
going back to college and taking on more work brought on by a promotion.
Better to just work less and really make only $10K less a year in the long
run.  I don't care about abortion...if it's a sin...then millions of women
will end up in hell.  If there is no God...oh well, they can go out and fuck
around with unsafe sex until they get HIV, then maybe they will find out
that is one thing that _cannot_ be aborted.   I do agree with him on the gun
issue.  Let cities and states make their own laws (I disagree with most gun
laws, but at least this way gun control would be taken out of the federal
arena).


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From mw-raves-return-34140-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 01:13:46 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw]help elect a President who is against the Drug War


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Davenport" <djrockridge@hotmail.com>
To: <burgisd@comcast.net>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [mw]help elect a President who is against the Drug War


>
> Regarding taxes...
>
> I heard Kucinich speak a few weeks ago, and here's what he said on the
issue
> of how to pay for all this...
>
> He is for a global nuclaer weapons ban.  Something huge portion of our
> current defense budget is spent on nuclear weapons and Star Wars systems
> that supposedly will defend us from nuclear weapons.  Cutting those
> nuclear-based defense programs will free up tens of billions of dollars
that
> would then be spent on health care and education.

Yes.  By cutting deep, healthcare could be provided to all.  However...this
just isn't going to happen.  He already has himself an out when the
anti-nuke crowd starts asking him why we have not destroyed our weapons
(this is if he were to win).  He can say "Well the world didn't vote the
ban, so I guess we have to keep ours."  Of course I would hope to hell no
one would give up our nukes unless everyone did.  That will never happen, so
banning nukes is never going to happen.  Also, what is he going to
do....pull a Bush and use our troops to stop countries like Iran, Iraq, et
al from making nukes.  Who is the US to tell others what to do?

If people want to get real about healthcare, start by cutting NASA to the
bone.  The space program is the biggest wastes of money if you ask me.


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From mw-raves-return-34141-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 03:33:19 2003
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From: "Jen303" <jen303@socket.net>
To: "Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] R U ?

You could find it coming out of Kansas City in 1999.  Pieces of it still may
be around.

Jen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>
To: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:21 AM
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?


First of all no American should be saying god bless the French after the
UN mess not to mention Turbo Sound Rigs out of Big Stack FL. And Active
in Atlanta are second to none its just to bad no one rolls Turbo Sound
in the MW

Bill Spaulding
Systems Group
HMS Engineering


-----Original Message-----
From: John Busch [mailto:jaybusch@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:51 AM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?


Well... about 60% of the system is in Paris right now in storage :(...
the rest got scattered around clubs here in Louisville... most of which
I've lost track of now since they all went out of business...

I think few realize the pure quality of sound that system produced...
high volume, yes... but never ear damaging as french-e was the king of
multi-band compression and eqing... and those original gauss drivers,
which can no longer be purchased, are the smoothest sound loudspeakers
money can buy (or at least could then)...

God bless the French man since he put far more into that system than I
think he ever got out... and in the process gave little old Midwest
ravers a sound system that any east coast or European party kid would
have drooled over... then of course... today I still want to see if
dillinja can stop my heart with the valve system...

And yes... those speakers were sluts that got fucked by many people all
night long... and they loved it...

-----Original Message-----
From: Tad Dicks [mailto:sluck604@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:54 PM
To: John Busch; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?

> Who here was a fan of the MaXXimum Sound System?

I think part of me is probably still stuck to that
soundsystem where ever it is now (france?).  I loved
(literally there may be some illegitmate children
around somewhere) the nice white cabinets behind the
black grill.

-tad

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From mw-raves-return-34142-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 03:33:21 2003
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From: "Jen303" <jen303@socket.net>
To: "catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>, <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
References: <104HFRR6U0384S17.1055959066@uwdvg017.cms.usa.net>
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Subject: Re: [mw] R U ?]

Anyone remember a party in Ohio July 4th weekend 1996 maybe?  Laurent
Garnier had his own room for 8 hours.  It was at the Dayton fair grounds.
Any help would be appreciated.

Jen
----- Original Message -----
From: "catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?]


aside from the comments of flag & mullet-waving asshats, i do beleive there
is
a sound company that uses Turbosound equipment here in Ohio, based out of
Cleveland.  They did 3 rooms of Turbo at Wishing Well's "Winter Wonderland
2"
rave last winter, putting my own 4th room PA system to shame.  buuuut, i
think
HK Audio gear (especially the active stuff) could give Turbo Sound a run for
its money.

-sim*n


DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34143-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 05:15:43 2003
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:15:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: Ryan <ryry317@pobox.com>, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

troll

--- Ryan <ryry317@pobox.com> wrote:
> 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>
> > To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>;
> <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 7:12 AM
> > Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who
> is against the Drug War
> 
> > > Gnome? dwarf? an elf? no... its a Troll!
> > >
> > > no one can really be this retarded, can they?
> >
>  I have been posting here since before 2000.  Only
> sheeple are retarded,
> people like me actually see the light.   I am
> surprised so many people can't
> see that taxation is nothing more than legalized
> stealing.
> 
> 
>
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From mw-raves-return-34144-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 05:19:51 2003
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:19:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: Jonathan Nelson <phossie@eds.org>, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

> > see that taxation is nothing more than legalized
> stealing.

How ignorant do you have to believe this?

-tad

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From mw-raves-return-34145-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 05:31:49 2003
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From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: Jen303 <jen303@socket.net>, catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>,
  mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: [mw] R U ?]

Fantastic Voyage....

System 7, Terry Mullan, Dave Angel, Dj Dan, Claude
young, carl craig, David Hollands, Billy Bob & Paris,
Phantom 45, Danny the wildchild, Astroboy, Mike
Huckaby and countless others.  I dont think the line
up for any of the DEMF/Muvment festivals (or any other
party) has even come close the full line up for that
party.  Wasn't held at the actual Dayton fairgrounds
but somewhere closer to Springfield. 

*sigh* sometimes I wish I could experience that whole
summer repeatedly.

-tad


--- Jen303 <jen303@socket.net> wrote:
> Anyone remember a party in Ohio July 4th weekend
> 1996 maybe?  Laurent
> Garnier had his own room for 8 hours.  It was at the
> Dayton fair grounds.
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Jen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>
> To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:57 PM
> Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?]
> 
> 
> aside from the comments of flag & mullet-waving
> asshats, i do beleive there
> is
> a sound company that uses Turbosound equipment here
> in Ohio, based out of
> Cleveland.  They did 3 rooms of Turbo at Wishing
> Well's "Winter Wonderland
> 2"
> rave last winter, putting my own 4th room PA system
> to shame.  buuuut, i
> think
> HK Audio gear (especially the active stuff) could
> give Turbo Sound a run for
> its money.
> 
> -sim*n
> 
> 
> DJ Catnap
> "Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
> Mecha Studios
> mechastudios@usa.net
> 
> 
> 
>
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From mw-raves-return-34146-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 10:19:22 2003
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From: "Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>
To: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Spam-Rating: taz3.hyperreal.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N
Subject: RE: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

Stop blowing up my mail box with political conversation wrong list



-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Sebion [mailto:tony@sebion.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 3:57 PM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug
War]


I'd like to always vote libertarian (and do often), but there's as many
of them on the same power/ego trip as the republicrats.  If Russ
Feingold ran, I'd vote for him as many times as I could.

I wish bob dobbs would run for president: his campaign slogan could be
"believe in me, or kill me".  Now there's a campaign promise!

-t


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Sprynczynatyk [mailto:spry0004@tc.umn.edu]=20
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 2:32 PM
To: DJMaytag
Cc: mw-raves@hyperreal.org

I'm quite libertarian in my views (I voted for Harry Brown in '96),
however after spending quite a bit of time actually reading the
Libertarian Party literature for a Poli Sci paper a few years ago, I
came to the conclusion that they're a bunch of loonies with a strange
hard-on for getting rid of the FDA.  To be fair, that was in '98 and
they might be a little less fixated, but c'mon, that's the agency that
keeps people from selling you poison and calling it medicine.  I keep
hoping that either the Republicans or the Democrats will pick up some
libertarian principles and I can find a party to call my own, but for
the foreseeable future it's a choice between legislated political
correctness on the left and legislated morality on the right.

Which reminds me, I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of the UPS van today,
who will deliver something special as a present for my girlfriend.  Get
yours now girls so that you never forget what John Ashcroft wants to
peer into (and prosecute for).

http://www.cafeshops.com/warposter.3577811


Tom

DJMaytag wrote:

>>anyone have some more thoughts on the correct "lefty" approach to the
>>2004 elections?
>>   =20
>>
>
>It prolly ain't gonna happen in our lifetime, but some should realize
>that left-right is NOT the only direction in the political spectrum...
>
>http://www.lp.org/
>
>I really like the model that the Libertarian Party has laid out, with a

>two dimensional political axis, showing the other two directions,
>Libertarianism and Authoritarianism. I personally fall in the centrist=20
>Libertarian range, just slightly to the left in the "World's Smallest=20
>Political Quiz." (See
>http://www.lp.org/quiz/)
>
>If these guys have a decent candidate, I'm voting LP in 2004. If not,
>Dean sounds like someone that'll stir the pot quite a bit (though the=20
>odds are good that he'd be assasinated in his first year if he=20
>continues to be as
>controversial...)
>
>L8R,
>MItch
>
>
> =20
>




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From mw-raves-return-34147-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 10:21:34 2003
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Thread-Index: AcM27T1CaG8Gxm9QThuhuKdJu4BGkAAKGMQw
From: "Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>
To: "Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>,
	"Jen303" <jen303@socket.net>,
	"catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?]

Gee ya that's the greatest line up ever tad you poor shleterd soul must
be from dayton



-----Original Message-----
From: Tad Dicks [mailto:sluck604@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:32 AM
To: Jen303; catnap; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [mw] R U ?]


Fantastic Voyage....

System 7, Terry Mullan, Dave Angel, Dj Dan, Claude
young, carl craig, David Hollands, Billy Bob & Paris,
Phantom 45, Danny the wildchild, Astroboy, Mike
Huckaby and countless others.  I dont think the line
up for any of the DEMF/Muvment festivals (or any other
party) has even come close the full line up for that
party.  Wasn't held at the actual Dayton fairgrounds
but somewhere closer to Springfield.=20

*sigh* sometimes I wish I could experience that whole
summer repeatedly.

-tad


--- Jen303 <jen303@socket.net> wrote:
> Anyone remember a party in Ohio July 4th weekend
> 1996 maybe?  Laurent
> Garnier had his own room for 8 hours.  It was at the
> Dayton fair grounds.
> Any help would be appreciated.
>=20
> Jen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>
> To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:57 PM
> Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?]
>=20
>=20
> aside from the comments of flag & mullet-waving
> asshats, i do beleive there
> is
> a sound company that uses Turbosound equipment here
> in Ohio, based out of
> Cleveland.  They did 3 rooms of Turbo at Wishing
> Well's "Winter Wonderland
> 2"
> rave last winter, putting my own 4th room PA system
> to shame.  buuuut, i
> think
> HK Audio gear (especially the active stuff) could
> give Turbo Sound a run for
> its money.
>=20
> -sim*n
>=20
>=20
> DJ Catnap
> "Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
> Mecha Studios
> mechastudios@usa.net
>=20
>=20
>=20
>
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>=20
>=20
>
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>=20


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From mw-raves-return-34148-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 11:37:03 2003
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From: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

Fucker.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


> troll
>
> --- Ryan <ryry317@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>
> > > To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>;
> > <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 7:12 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who
> > is against the Drug War
> >
> > > > Gnome? dwarf? an elf? no... its a Troll!
> > > >
> > > > no one can really be this retarded, can they?
> > >
> >  I have been posting here since before 2000.  Only
> > sheeple are retarded,
> > people like me actually see the light.   I am
> > surprised so many people can't
> > see that taxation is nothing more than legalized
> > stealing.
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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From mw-raves-return-34149-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 11:37:44 2003
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From: "Matt Murphy" <murph@mr.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
References: <Law15-F683s1wsXZZTH000b8a7b@hotmail.com> <008d01c336ca$3a2df550$389cde0c@Keller>
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Subject: Re: [mw]help elect a President who is against the Drug War

> If people want to get real about healthcare, start by cutting NASA to the
> bone.  The space program is the biggest wastes of money if you ask me.

    You're totally right, no need for the human race to aspire to anything
more than chasing a six figure income and buying a BMW. Fuck space, this
planet is doing great!

Matt


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From mw-raves-return-34150-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 11:44:01 2003
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From: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: "Jonathan Nelson" <phossie@eds.org>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


> > > see that taxation is nothing more than legalized
> > stealing.
>
> How ignorant do you have to believe this?

How is forcing someone to hand over money with the treat of taking their
home, property, and freedom _NOT_ legalized stealing?  How am I ignorant if
I am not the one wanting big mama government up my ass all the time?  If
your for government pensions (Social Security), for government housing,  and
for government healthcare....you are asking the government to act as your
keeper.  Therefore, when your parents say "You can't do drugs." why are you
bitching about it?  You seem to think they know what's best for you in all
other aspects of your life....so why do you throw a temper tantrum on the
drug issue?   Typical sheeple being raised by the govenment.  "Give me, Give
me, Give me" followed by "MOM AND DAD I HATE YOU, I WANT TO DO ANYTHING I
FEEL LIKE."

Tad Dicks: Sheeple # 403-21-8739 of the U. S. Government Borg Collective.
Hater of freedom, champion of government slavery.


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From mw-raves-return-34151-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 12:04:20 2003
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From: "Matt Murphy" <murph@mr.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
References: <331HFsoYd2272S07.1056034229@uwdvg007.cms.usa.net> <003101c336c4$259aae90$389cde0c@Keller>
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

> anyone have some more thoughts on the correct "lefty" approach to the 2004
> elections?

    If the Dems pull their heads out of their ass, and realize that the
reason they've lost the presidency, and then got wiped in congress, is that
they're sounding too much like republicans, and not inspiring voters, it
might be interesting. Liberals are voting green, if they're bothering at
all, because the Dems are looking more and more like the Reps, and we want a
real alternative. I'd really like to see, along with a strengthening of the
soft money ban, a move to Instant Runoff Voting, as is done in most other
democracies in the world. The two-sided political system causes people to
vote out of fear rather than choice, and causes partisanship to get in the
way of reasonable and compromised legislation that represents the will of
the people. With IRV, people rank their candidates, and if your first choice
loses, your vote goes to your second choice, and so on. I think it was
probably too complicated to handle administratively in the 1700's, but these
days I think it'd solve a lot of our problems.

    I don't know who I'm voting for in coming elections, but there are a few
Dem candidates that seem to be on the right track. The republicans gained
ground with the neo conservative movement, the dems need to realize that
they can do the same with the opposite.

> Personally, if I were a lefty I would be voting Republican or
Democrat....I
> vote Libertarian when I can and really don't care to vote at all anymore.
> It's sad the Constitution is dead in this country and there are some
> (Michael Moore) who want to do their best to make sure it never returns.

    Michael Moore is just the liberal rush limbaugh. You can't really take
what he says particularly seriously, but provided you don't, you'll probably
come away with some good things to think about. I really don't think he's
looking to destroy the constitution, and a statement like that requires a
little more backup than that sweeping bs. I think he's at the very least a
more reasonable voice than Ashcroft, who unfortunately actually affects
policy, and seems pretty annoyed with our silly "Bill of Rights".

Matt


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From mw-raves-return-34152-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 12:21:43 2003
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:21:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

Woah stop with all the big words!
Dont want to blow fuse in that big old brain box of
yours.


-tad
--- Ryan <ryry317@pobox.com> wrote:
> Fucker.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>
> To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>;
> <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who
> is against the Drug War
> 
> 
> > troll
> >
> > --- Ryan <ryry317@pobox.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>
> > > > To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>;
> > > <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 7:12 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President
> who
> > > is against the Drug War
> > >
> > > > > Gnome? dwarf? an elf? no... its a Troll!
> > > > >
> > > > > no one can really be this retarded, can
> they?
> > > >
> > >  I have been posting here since before 2000. 
> Only
> > > sheeple are retarded,
> > > people like me actually see the light.   I am
> > > surprised so many people can't
> > > see that taxation is nothing more than legalized
> > > stealing.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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> >
> >
> > __________________________________
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> > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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> 
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From mw-raves-return-34153-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 12:25:42 2003
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:25:40 -0500
From: gregory trimper <trimperg@netscape.net>
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Subject: [mw] damn, who woke up the midwest raves monster?

gimp's sleepin.

gregory // 26 posts in less than a month?  it is 1997 all over again // 
dj lo


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From mw-raves-return-34154-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 12:45:49 2003
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:45:23 -0700
From: "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] damn, who woke up the midwest raves monster?

pick me! pick me!

> From: gregory trimper <trimperg@netscape.net>
> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:25:40 -0500
> To: "Midwest Ravers (shell therof)" <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> Subject: [mw] damn, who woke up the midwest raves monster?
> 
> gimp's sleepin.
> 
> gregory // 26 posts in less than a month?  it is 1997 all over again //
> dj lo
> 
> 
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From mw-raves-return-34155-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 12:48:28 2003
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Message-ID: <20030620124827.3993.qmail@web12203.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:48:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: Ryan <ryry317@pobox.com>, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <001d01c33721$51070990$389cde0c@Keller>
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

I am all for: streets to drive my car on, schools to
educate people (you should try this!), Police (yes
they do have apurpose!), Fire fighters, a military to
help secure the borders.  I have a fairly nice
standard of living (Read better than most of the
worlds population, and since you have the free time
and the means to be emailing the list you probably do
too).  Surely you can think a little harder and find
some services the government provides you that you
appreciate.

> How is forcing someone to hand over money with the
> treat of taking their
> home, property, and freedom _NOT_ legalized
> stealing?  How am I ignorant if

You truly are stupid.  I personally know a family
member who owed the IRS in the excess of a million
dollars in back taxes who was never jailed nor was
their home taken from.

> bitching about it?  You seem to think they know
> what's best for you in all
> other aspects of your life....so why do you throw a

Did I say that? no I don't think so. I just appreciate
certain aspects that come from living in the
formalized social collective that is known as a
nation.

> Tad Dicks: Sheeple # 403-21-8739 of the U. S.
> Government Borg Collective.
> Hater of freedom, champion of government slavery.

Wow, you are a creative type arent you? 



-tad


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From mw-raves-return-34156-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 12:49:55 2003
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:49:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com>, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: [mw] damn, who woke up the midwest raves monster?


--- "pepper @ hotmail" <djpepper@hotmail.com> wrote:
> pick me! pick me!
> 

Only if you change your name to Pikachu.



-tad

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From mw-raves-return-34157-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 15:20:07 2003
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Thread-Topic: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War
Thread-Index: AcM3ISnTIRobh7yfS6OJLF/hm9NOuQAHhNwA
From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Spam-Rating: taz3.hyperreal.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N
Subject: RE: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/janes-addiction/60145.htm

-t=20


-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan [mailto:ryry317@pobox.com]=20
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 6:45 AM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug
War


> > > see that taxation is nothing more than legalized
> > stealing.
>
> How ignorant do you have to believe this?

How is forcing someone to hand over money with the treat of taking their
home, property, and freedom _NOT_ legalized stealing?  How am I ignorant
if I am not the one wanting big mama government up my ass all the time?
If your for government pensions (Social Security), for government
housing,  and for government healthcare....you are asking the government
to act as your keeper.  Therefore, when your parents say "You can't do
drugs." why are you bitching about it?  You seem to think they know
what's best for you in all other aspects of your life....so why do you
throw a temper tantrum on the
drug issue?   Typical sheeple being raised by the govenment.  "Give me,
Give
me, Give me" followed by "MOM AND DAD I HATE YOU, I WANT TO DO ANYTHING
I FEEL LIKE."


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From mw-raves-return-34158-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 17:39:40 2003
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:39:22 -0400
From: starlitefuNk@cs.com
To: bspaulding@hmscollc.com ("Bill Spaulding"),
        tony@sebion.com ("Tony Sebion"), mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: RE: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

*agree*
time to swith to 'newsletter format'

"Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com> wrote:

>Stop blowing up my mail box with political conversation wrong list
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tony Sebion [mailto:tony@sebion.com]
>Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 3:57 PM
>To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>Subject: RE: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug
>War]
>
>
>I'd like to always vote libertarian (and do often), but there's as many
>of them on the same power/ego trip as the republicrats.  If Russ
>Feingold ran, I'd vote for him as many times as I could.
>
>I wish bob dobbs would run for president: his campaign slogan could be
>"believe in me, or kill me".  Now there's a campaign promise!
>
>-t
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom Sprynczynatyk [mailto:spry0004@tc.umn.edu]
>Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 2:32 PM
>To: DJMaytag
>Cc: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>
>I'm quite libertarian in my views (I voted for Harry Brown in '96),
>however after spending quite a bit of time actually reading the
>Libertarian Party literature for a Poli Sci paper a few years ago, I
>came to the conclusion that they're a bunch of loonies with a strange
>hard-on for getting rid of the FDA.  To be fair, that was in '98 and
>they might be a little less fixated, but c'mon, that's the agency that
>keeps people from selling you poison and calling it medicine.  I keep
>hoping that either the Republicans or the Democrats will pick up some
>libertarian principles and I can find a party to call my own, but for
>the foreseeable future it's a choice between legislated political
>correctness on the left and legislated morality on the right.
>
>Which reminds me, I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of the UPS van today,
>who will deliver something special as a present for my girlfriend.  Get
>yours now girls so that you never forget what John Ashcroft wants to
>peer into (and prosecute for).
>
>http://www.cafeshops.com/warposter.3577811
>
>
>Tom
>
>DJMaytag wrote:
>
>>>anyone have some more thoughts on the correct "lefty" approach to the
>>>2004 elections?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>It prolly ain't gonna happen in our lifetime, but some should realize
>>that left-right is NOT the only direction in the political spectrum...
>>
>>http://www.lp.org/
>>
>>I really like the model that the Libertarian Party has laid out, with a
>
>>two dimensional political axis, showing the other two directions,
>>Libertarianism and Authoritarianism. I personally fall in the centrist
>>Libertarian range, just slightly to the left in the "World's Smallest
>>Political Quiz." (See
>>http://www.lp.org/quiz/)
>>
>>If these guys have a decent candidate, I'm voting LP in 2004. If not,
>>Dean sounds like someone that'll stir the pot quite a bit (though the
>>odds are good that he'd be assasinated in his first year if he
>>continues to be as
>>controversial...)
>>
>>L8R,
>>MItch
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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From mw-raves-return-34159-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 17:44:54 2003
Return-Path: <mw-raves-return-34159-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org>
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Mailing-List: contact mw-raves-help@hyperreal.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
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Thread-Topic: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]
Thread-Index: AcM3UtUQTgTyO9vOSq2xE0oJvOsV9wAACZdA
From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: <starlitefuNk@cs.com>,
	"Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Spam-Rating: taz3.hyperreal.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N
Subject: RE: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

What list?

What's the record for # of mw-raves messages in a day?  I'd say its at =
least 200, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was at least a day or =
two over 300.

As long as I get more spam than I get mw-raves, I won't be complaining =
anytime soon.

-t=20

Ps - politics and "raving" may have not had anything directly to do with =
each other in the past, but they definitely do now.  Discussing personal =
freedoms and the organizations and forces that try to supress those =
freedoms is pretty damn rave-related.

-----Original Message-----
From: starlitefuNk@cs.com=20

*agree*
time to swith to 'newsletter format'

"Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com> wrote:

>Stop blowing up my mail box with political conversation wrong list
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tony Sebion=20
>To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>Subject: RE: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug=20
>War]
>
>
>I'd like to always vote libertarian (and do often), but there's as many =

>of them on the same power/ego trip as the republicrats. =A0If Russ=20
>Feingold ran, I'd vote for him as many times as I could.
>
>I wish bob dobbs would run for president: his campaign slogan could be=20
>"believe in me, or kill me". =A0Now there's a campaign promise!
>
>-t
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom Sprynczynatyk [mailto:spry0004@tc.umn.edu]
>Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 2:32 PM
>To: DJMaytag
>Cc: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>
>I'm quite libertarian in my views (I voted for Harry Brown in '96),=20
>however after spending quite a bit of time actually reading the=20
>Libertarian Party literature for a Poli Sci paper a few years ago, I=20
>came to the conclusion that they're a bunch of loonies with a strange=20
>hard-on for getting rid of the FDA. =A0To be fair, that was in '98 and=20
>they might be a little less fixated, but c'mon, that's the agency that=20
>keeps people from selling you poison and calling it medicine. =A0I keep =

>hoping that either the Republicans or the Democrats will pick up some=20
>libertarian principles and I can find a party to call my own, but for=20
>the foreseeable future it's a choice between legislated political=20
>correctness on the left and legislated morality on the right.
>
>Which reminds me, I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of the UPS van=20
>today, who will deliver something special as a present for my=20
>girlfriend. =A0Get yours now girls so that you never forget what John=20
>Ashcroft wants to peer into (and prosecute for).
>
>http://www.cafeshops.com/warposter.3577811
>
>
>Tom
>
>DJMaytag wrote:
>
>>>anyone have some more thoughts on the correct "lefty" approach to the
>>>2004 elections?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>It prolly ain't gonna happen in our lifetime, but some should realize=20
>>that left-right is NOT the only direction in the political spectrum...
>>
>>http://www.lp.org/
>>
>>I really like the model that the Libertarian Party has laid out, with=20
>>a
>
>>two dimensional political axis, showing the other two directions,=20
>>Libertarianism and Authoritarianism. I personally fall in the centrist =

>>Libertarian range, just slightly to the left in the "World's Smallest=20
>>Political Quiz." (See
>>http://www.lp.org/quiz/)
>>
>>If these guys have a decent candidate, I'm voting LP in 2004. If not,=20
>>Dean sounds like someone that'll stir the pot quite a bit (though the=20
>>odds are good that he'd be assasinated in his first year if he=20
>>continues to be as
>>controversial...)
>>
>>L8R,
>>MItch
>>
>>
>>
>>

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From mw-raves-return-34160-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 19:03:54 2003
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From: Casey <partykidzproductions@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [mw] This Saturday . June 21st . 2003

last modulate ever . by on30ne . saturday

                                        .

                       us mw mi ann arbor
                         516 east liberty
                                    necto
                               [red room]

                                        .

                    l e g a l   a l i e n

                                drum+bass
                                 12a - 2a
                                  detroit
                                 plurkids

            c a s e y   p u c h a l s k y

                                   techno
                                10p - 12a
                                ann arbor
                                   on30ne

                                        .

                                doors 10p
                                   18+ $8
                                   21+ $5
                          women by 11p $0

                                        .

           $1 vodka well drinks until 11p
               $2 rolling rocks all night
                  shot specials all night

                                        .

             thank you former modulators:

                                ace deuce
                         adam francesconi
                            alastair todd
[2]                                 anime
                                    benny
                                 darkcube
                                dj joshua
                              dj number 9
                             evil kniegro
                           garrett dillon
                                 infinity
                            jeremy spoken
                               jimmy hunt
                           jonathan voigt
                                 jon pape
                              kelly lynne
                            kruse kontrol
                           mathew boynton
                                   neil v
                           robert textile
                               scott nutt
                              the equinox
                             tony trouble


__________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34161-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 20 21:33:17 2003
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:36:21 -0400
From: David Burgis <burgisd@comcast.net>
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

Hell yeah, that's the reason they lost in 2002 (IMHO). IRV is an 
awesome idea, though.

Regarding M. Moore: sure he's like Limbaugh (fat, loud, and 
occasionally funny) but unlike Limbaugh he seems to be funny on 
purpose. But how is it that Moore is against the constitution? A quick 
glance at his website (www.michaelmoore.com) shows a few glowing 
references to the First Amendment, the welfare system (in the 3rd 
article (I think, it's the one with the duties of the executive branch) 
it says that the government "has a duty to protect the welfare of the 
nation",  not quite how it was meant perhaps, but making sure people 
can survive does seem to be in the interests of the welfare of the 
nation), both of which are wicked constitutional. I really don't get 
how in anyway you can say that Michael Moore is against the 
constitution. I really want to know the explanation.

On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 08:00  AM, Matt Murphy wrote:

>> anyone have some more thoughts on the correct "lefty" approach to the 
>> 2004
>> elections?
>
>     If the Dems pull their heads out of their ass, and realize that the
> reason they've lost the presidency, and then got wiped in congress, is 
> that
> they're sounding too much like republicans, and not inspiring voters, 
> it
> might be interesting. Liberals are voting green, if they're bothering 
> at
> all, because the Dems are looking more and more like the Reps, and we 
> want a
> real alternative. I'd really like to see, along with a strengthening 
> of the
> soft money ban, a move to Instant Runoff Voting, as is done in most 
> other
> democracies in the world. The two-sided political system causes people 
> to
> vote out of fear rather than choice, and causes partisanship to get in 
> the
> way of reasonable and compromised legislation that represents the will 
> of
> the people. With IRV, people rank their candidates, and if your first 
> choice
> loses, your vote goes to your second choice, and so on. I think it was
> probably too complicated to handle administratively in the 1700's, but 
> these
> days I think it'd solve a lot of our problems.
>
>     I don't know who I'm voting for in coming elections, but there are 
> a few
> Dem candidates that seem to be on the right track. The republicans 
> gained
> ground with the neo conservative movement, the dems need to realize 
> that
> they can do the same with the opposite.
>
>> Personally, if I were a lefty I would be voting Republican or
> Democrat....I
>> vote Libertarian when I can and really don't care to vote at all 
>> anymore.
>> It's sad the Constitution is dead in this country and there are some
>> (Michael Moore) who want to do their best to make sure it never 
>> returns.
>
>     Michael Moore is just the liberal rush limbaugh. You can't really 
> take
> what he says particularly seriously, but provided you don't, you'll 
> probably
> come away with some good things to think about. I really don't think 
> he's
> looking to destroy the constitution, and a statement like that 
> requires a
> little more backup than that sweeping bs. I think he's at the very 
> least a
> more reasonable voice than Ashcroft, who unfortunately actually affects
> policy, and seems pretty annoyed with our silly "Bill of Rights".
>
> Matt
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34162-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jun 21 03:39:06 2003
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From: "Hang McLaughlin" <eponine@mn.rr.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:39:01 -0500
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Subject: [mw] spitfire

Okay, so I know I really shouldn't be doing this, but I can't think of
another way to get into contact with him ... Plus, it can't be any more off
topic than all those politcal posts we've been having :P

Does anyone know where or what happened to Spitfire (Mike V.), who was
living in the Chicago area?  He's a friend and I'd love to get into contact
with him.


***
Eponine


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From mw-raves-return-34163-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jun 21 04:35:00 2003
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To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
References: <Law15-F683s1wsXZZTH000b8a7b@hotmail.com> <008d01c336ca$3a2df550$389cde0c@Keller> <001701c3371f$e4516800$6401a8c0@tctech.com>
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Subject: Re: [mw]help elect a President who is against the Drug War

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Murphy" <murph@mr.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: [mw]help elect a President who is against the Drug War

>     You're totally right, no need for the human race to aspire to anything
> more than chasing a six figure income and buying a BMW. Fuck space, this
> planet is doing great!

Is everything the government does sacred to you?  There is no need to steal
my money so that some 1st grade class of just 20 students (out of what, 5
billion fucking people on the planet) can see their plants grow in outer
space.  This money would be better spent elsewhere.  So what, we fly into
space.  I am not saying that learning, knowing about space was
worthless...but we know most of what we need to know.  Who really cares if
we find some nebula 10 billion light years away.  Last time I check the
shuttles didn't have a warp plasma core, so getting there won't be happening
anytime soon.  There is nothing wrong with achievement....but when the
achievement of a few means stealing money from others, well it's time to put
an end to it.


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From mw-raves-return-34164-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jun 21 04:37:55 2003
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To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
References: <331HFsoYd2272S07.1056034229@uwdvg007.cms.usa.net> <003101c336c4$259aae90$389cde0c@Keller> <002e01c33723$9b4d18d0$6401a8c0@tctech.com>
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]


----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Murphy" <murph@mr.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]


> as is done in most other democracies in the world.

Democracy is what we are fighting against.  The "50%+1 vote" determines law,
regardless of what the constitution states, was not what this country was
supposed to be.


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From mw-raves-return-34165-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jun 21 04:49:46 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

>
> > How is forcing someone to hand over money with the
> > treat of taking their
> > home, property, and freedom _NOT_ legalized
> > stealing?  How am I ignorant if
>
> You truly are stupid.  I personally know a family
> member who owed the IRS in the excess of a million
> dollars in back taxes who was never jailed nor was
> their home taken from.

So your saying the government never takes property?  Funny because  I work
at a bank and see court orders to garnish money in accounts for back taxes.
Maybe your friends just blew all the right people?  If it happens just once,
it's pretty bad.  Funny how all of us anti-war on drugs folks bitch about
asset confiscation laws tied to drug arrests, but when the liberals of that
group see the government taking money from hard working people.....they say
nothing.  Typical.


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From mw-raves-return-34166-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jun 21 05:06:25 2003
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From: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Burgis" <burgisd@comcast.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]


> Hell yeah, that's the reason they lost in 2002 (IMHO). IRV is an
> awesome idea, though.
>
> Regarding M. Moore: sure he's like Limbaugh (fat, loud, and
> occasionally funny) but unlike Limbaugh he seems to be funny on
> purpose. But how is it that Moore is against the constitution? A quick
> glance at his website (www.michaelmoore.com) shows a few glowing
> references to the First Amendment, the welfare system (in the 3rd
> article (I think, it's the one with the duties of the executive branch)
> it says that the government "has a duty to protect the welfare of the
> nation", not quite how it was meant perhaps, but making sure people
> can survive does seem to be in the interests of the welfare of the
> nation), both of which are wicked constitutional. I really don't get
> how in anyway you can say that Michael Moore is against the
> constitution. I really want to know the explanation.

The constitution says nothing about forcing others to care for other
individuals.  Human have a right to be free to do as they wish.  The only
real laws with any merit would be to not harm another person or another
person's property.  People like more are sick.  They want to punish folks
that do good in life.  I saw an interview with Moore not to long ago.  He is
full of shit.  I never once say a homeless person sleeping on his property
or in his home.   This man preaches bs and then doesn't even follow through.
Wonder how many homeless people he allows to stay over in his home every
night?   Back in the day of the Constitution, people worked.  Lashoniqwa
wouldn't have survived with her 4 bastard kids from 3 different fathers.  In
today's world, people like Moore reward that kind of behavior.  Of course
that just cause off-spring to follow suit.  Welfare used to be a relief, now
it's a 'right.'  The burnoff is coming, no way to stop it.  Eventually the
people will not tolerate government in the form it has become.  Me, I plan
on living rural and being prepared.  The cities will become shit holes.  The
only thing keeping the welfare trash from rioting is the welfare cards they
are given.  Enough to get their fix, their shelter, and their food.  People
like Moore want to give them more.  Maybe it's not such a bad idea.  Give
them an extra $100 and maybe most will OD and die off.  Even if the
Constitution did say crap about people being slaves...it would still be
morally right for the people to have a revolution for individual freedom.
No religion, no government, no political party will ever change my belief in
that humans have a right to be free individually.


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From mw-raves-return-34167-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jun 21 14:01:23 2003
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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: Ryan <ryry317@pobox.com>, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
In-Reply-To: <004901c337b3$268b8fa0$389cde0c@Keller>
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

<my_last_words_on_subject>
Pure Comic genius
</my_last_words_on_subject>

-tad
--- Ryan <ryry317@pobox.com> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Burgis" <burgisd@comcast.net>
> To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 4:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is
> against the Drug War]
> 
> 
> > Hell yeah, that's the reason they lost in 2002
> (IMHO). IRV is an
> > awesome idea, though.
> >
> > Regarding M. Moore: sure he's like Limbaugh (fat,
> loud, and
> > occasionally funny) but unlike Limbaugh he seems
> to be funny on
> > purpose. But how is it that Moore is against the
> constitution? A quick
> > glance at his website (www.michaelmoore.com) shows
> a few glowing
> > references to the First Amendment, the welfare
> system (in the 3rd
> > article (I think, it's the one with the duties of
> the executive branch)
> > it says that the government "has a duty to protect
> the welfare of the
> > nation", not quite how it was meant perhaps, but
> making sure people
> > can survive does seem to be in the interests of
> the welfare of the
> > nation), both of which are wicked constitutional.
> I really don't get
> > how in anyway you can say that Michael Moore is
> against the
> > constitution. I really want to know the
> explanation.
> 
> The constitution says nothing about forcing others
> to care for other
> individuals.  Human have a right to be free to do as
> they wish.  The only
> real laws with any merit would be to not harm
> another person or another
> person's property.  People like more are sick.  They
> want to punish folks
> that do good in life.  I saw an interview with Moore
> not to long ago.  He is
> full of shit.  I never once say a homeless person
> sleeping on his property
> or in his home.   This man preaches bs and then
> doesn't even follow through.
> Wonder how many homeless people he allows to stay
> over in his home every
> night?   Back in the day of the Constitution, people
> worked.  Lashoniqwa
> wouldn't have survived with her 4 bastard kids from
> 3 different fathers.  In
> today's world, people like Moore reward that kind of
> behavior.  Of course
> that just cause off-spring to follow suit.  Welfare
> used to be a relief, now
> it's a 'right.'  The burnoff is coming, no way to
> stop it.  Eventually the
> people will not tolerate government in the form it
> has become.  Me, I plan
> on living rural and being prepared.  The cities will
> become shit holes.  The
> only thing keeping the welfare trash from rioting is
> the welfare cards they
> are given.  Enough to get their fix, their shelter,
> and their food.  People
> like Moore want to give them more.  Maybe it's not
> such a bad idea.  Give
> them an extra $100 and maybe most will OD and die
> off.  Even if the
> Constitution did say crap about people being
> slaves...it would still be
> morally right for the people to have a revolution
> for individual freedom.
> No religion, no government, no political party will
> ever change my belief in
> that humans have a right to be free individually.
> 
> 
>
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From mw-raves-return-34168-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jun 21 17:05:42 2003
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Message-ID: <008901c33817$5cc1e4c0$0a01a8c0@bill>
From: "bill" <drthundr@milwpc.com>
To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>, <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
References: <20030620051947.88190.qmail@web12208.mail.yahoo.com> <001d01c33721$51070990$389cde0c@Keller>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:05:48 -0500
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

Ryan,

do you live in a "city"?

do you drive on "roads"?

look, I am not happy about everything that my tax dollars fund. I doubt =
anyone is. =20

the left leaning people tend to hate the defense spending, the war on =
drugs spending,  the tax breaks for the wealthy.

meanwhile, the right leaning people tend to hate social spending, =
welfare, funding for arts, big government spending, etc.

but if you truly think you get nothing from your tax dollars, and feel =
the money has been stolen from you, leave the country.  I don't say this =
flippantly, I mean it.  leave.  I have a friend whom I love and respect =
who felt that way.  he couldn't take the fact that his tax dollars were =
being spent on programs he could not endorse.  so he left. =20

or you could always refuse to pay, if you feel this strongly, you can =
make a point, be a martyr. =20

here's a thought, you could try to make a difference, if you truly feel =
you are being robbed.  how about canvassing, contacting your =
representatives in government, or starting petitions?  oh wait, those =
things take work.  it is much easier to post to rave boards that you are =
being robbed, while you milk all that your taxes actually bring you.  go =
flush the toilet 30 times, just because you can.  why not do something =
Ryan?  and before you send me the "blah blah blah...I do this" speech, =
let me remind you that all you have done publicly in this forum is wank. =
 wank wank wank.  if you had some sort of alternative, or were working =
to something, you could have taken the time to share what that was.  =
instead you went 100% negative.  no positive. =20

if that is really how you feel, I expect you to be buried in the hills =
with no electric, sewer, water, telecom, government food or medical =
standards, no protection from crime, no public transportation, nothing =
you cannot provide on your own.

freedom from the services you depend on every day.  hoe does that sound?

oh, BTW, I am a flaming liberal.  and I find ultraconservatives like you =
pretty goddamn funny, in your cluelessness.  I would like to see you =
last two weeks without the federal teat.


----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug =
War


>=20
> How is forcing someone to hand over money with the treat of taking =
their
> home, property, and freedom _NOT_ legalized stealing?  How am I =
ignorant if
> I am not the one wanting big mama government up my ass all the time?  =
If
> your for government pensions (Social Security), for government =
housing,  and
> for government healthcare....you are asking the government to act as =
your
> keeper.  Therefore, when your parents say "You can't do drugs." why =
are you
> bitching about it?  You seem to think they know what's best for you in =
all
> other aspects of your life....so why do you throw a temper tantrum on =
the
> drug issue?   Typical sheeple being raised by the govenment.  "Give =
me, Give
> me, Give me" followed by "MOM AND DAD I HATE YOU, I WANT TO DO =
ANYTHING I
> FEEL LIKE."


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From mw-raves-return-34169-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jun 21 21:30:00 2003
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From: "dan sharp" <kode_@hotmail.com>
To: drthundr@milwpc.com, ryry317@pobox.com, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
Bcc: 
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:29:57 +0000
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

OUCH: see below


>From: "bill" <drthundr@milwpc.com>
>To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>, <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
>Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug 
>War
>Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:05:48 -0500
>
>Ryan,
>
>do you live in a "city"?
>
>do you drive on "roads"?
>
>look, I am not happy about everything that my tax dollars fund. I doubt 
>anyone is.
>
>the left leaning people tend to hate the defense spending, the war on drugs 
>spending,  the tax breaks for the wealthy.
>
>meanwhile, the right leaning people tend to hate social spending, welfare, 
>funding for arts, big government spending, etc.
>
>but if you truly think you get nothing from your tax dollars, and feel the 
>money has been stolen from you, leave the country.  I don't say this 
>flippantly, I mean it.  leave.  I have a friend whom I love and respect who 
>felt that way.  he couldn't take the fact that his tax dollars were being 
>spent on programs he could not endorse.  so he left.
>
>or you could always refuse to pay, if you feel this strongly, you can make 
>a point, be a martyr.
>
>here's a thought, you could try to make a difference, if you truly feel you 
>are being robbed.  how about canvassing, contacting your representatives in 
>government, or starting petitions?  oh wait, those things take work.  it is 
>much easier to post to rave boards that you are being robbed, while you 
>milk all that your taxes actually bring you.  go flush the toilet 30 times, 
>just because you can.  why not do something Ryan?  and before you send me 
>the "blah blah blah...I do this" speech, let me remind you that all you 
>have done publicly in this forum is wank.  wank wank wank.  if you had some 
>sort of alternative, or were working to something, you could have taken the 
>time to share what that was.  instead you went 100% negative.  no positive.
>
>if that is really how you feel, I expect you to be buried in the hills with 
>no electric, sewer, water, telecom, government food or medical standards, 
>no protection from crime, no public transportation, nothing you cannot 
>provide on your own.
>
>freedom from the services you depend on every day.  hoe does that sound?
>
>oh, BTW, I am a flaming liberal.  and I find ultraconservatives like you 
>pretty goddamn funny, in your cluelessness.  I would like to see you last 
>two weeks without the federal teat.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>
>To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
>Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 6:44 AM
>Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug 
>War
>
>
> >
> > How is forcing someone to hand over money with the treat of taking their
> > home, property, and freedom _NOT_ legalized stealing?  How am I ignorant 
>if
> > I am not the one wanting big mama government up my ass all the time?  If
> > your for government pensions (Social Security), for government housing,  
>and
> > for government healthcare....you are asking the government to act as 
>your
> > keeper.  Therefore, when your parents say "You can't do drugs." why are 
>you
> > bitching about it?  You seem to think they know what's best for you in 
>all
> > other aspects of your life....so why do you throw a temper tantrum on 
>the
> > drug issue?   Typical sheeple being raised by the govenment.  "Give me, 
>Give
> > me, Give me" followed by "MOM AND DAD I HATE YOU, I WANT TO DO ANYTHING 
>I
> > FEEL LIKE."
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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_________________________________________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34170-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 04:06:53 2003
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From: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>
To: "bill" <drthundr@milwpc.com>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
References: <20030620051947.88190.qmail@web12208.mail.yahoo.com> <001d01c33721$51070990$389cde0c@Keller> <008901c33817$5cc1e4c0$0a01a8c0@bill>
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


----- Original Message -----
From: "bill" <drthundr@milwpc.com>
To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


>Ryan,

>do you live in a "city"?

No.

>do you drive on "roads"?

Yes.

>but if you truly think you get nothing from your tax dollars, and feel the
money has
>been stolen from you, leave the country.

The founders did not set the country up so one would have to leave to have
individual rights.  I believe in fighting for them.  Not letting the facist
win.

>here's a thought, you could try to make a difference, if you truly feel you
are being >robbed.  how about canvassing, contacting your representatives in
government, or >starting petitions?

Laughable at best.  I understand your logic, but when Washington is passing
unconstitutional laws like it's bad gas....I have lost all trust in 'the
process'.  The process is bullshit.  I have a feeling the Assault Weapons
Ban will expire.  Not because it's the _right_ thing to do according to the
Constitution....but because it will be the _right_ thing to do to ensure
Republicans get re-elected.  The process has been screwed since we abandoned
the Constitution.  There is a slight possibility we can return to a
constitution republic in a peaceful way.  Unfortunately, I have seen the
light and how people are...it will be anything but peaceful.


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From mw-raves-return-34171-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 07:50:13 2003
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Thread-Topic: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War
Thread-Index: AcM4c5utjC3D5/WMQ/ej06c9+6Wo/gAHr9yg
From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: <ryry317@pobox.com>,
	"bill" <drthundr@milwpc.com>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Spam-Rating: taz3.hyperreal.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N
Subject: RE: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

12 months ago, I would've totally agreed with bill on this, and thought
ryan needed to chill out a bit.  At this point though, I've never seen
the US this close to a class/culture/race/value war.  And I'm almost
ready to cheer it on.

For better or worse, maybe its about time.

-t

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan [mailto:ryry317@pobox.com]=20
To: bill; mw-raves@hyperreal.org


----- Original Message -----
From: "bill" <drthundr@milwpc.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug
War


>Ryan,

>do you live in a "city"?

No.

>do you drive on "roads"?

Yes.

>but if you truly think you get nothing from your tax dollars, and feel=20
>the
money has
>been stolen from you, leave the country.

The founders did not set the country up so one would have to leave to
have individual rights.  I believe in fighting for them.  Not letting
the facist win.

>here's a thought, you could try to make a difference, if you truly feel

>you
are being >robbed.  how about canvassing, contacting your
representatives in government, or >starting petitions?

Laughable at best.  I understand your logic, but when Washington is
passing unconstitutional laws like it's bad gas....I have lost all trust
in 'the process'.  <more>

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From mw-raves-return-34172-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 13:12:48 2003
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Message-ID: <3EF5D965.6490A60F@deadlysystems.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:29:25 -0700
From: "webmaster@deadlysystems.com" <webmaster@deadlysystems.com>
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Subject: [mw] test, please ignore

why are my posts not going through??? i did not sign up in "read griping
only" mode.

-sean


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From mw-raves-return-34173-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 13:19:12 2003
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:35:57 -0700
From: "webmaster@deadlysystems.com" <webmaster@deadlysystems.com>
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Subject: [mw] duh...

who knows...musta had something set wrong.  anyway, like i posted
(ranted) last night (but it didn't post, who knows why), if you're so
concerned about politics and the way your dollars are spent, go be
politically active.  it doesn't matter which party you join(ed), go make
a difference somewhere--griping gets you nowhere, and only makes people
dislike you.

fyi, the rave act was sponsored by a democrat.  the patriot act was
brought upon you by a republican, i believe.  ie it doesnt matter which
party you join, they both need work.  a rave list on the other hand is a
medium for discussing music and parties and things that affect us (for
example, does anyone else around here like delta9? or am i some kind of
anomaly? people in dayton give me wierd looks when i blast that shit). 
it might be easier to bitch to your friends or people you feel close to,
but it makes more sense to bitch where it will do some good rather than
alienate people that could help you.

wow...that was so much kinder than what i wrote last night...

-sean


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From mw-raves-return-34174-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 14:16:50 2003
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From: "bill" <drthundr@milwpc.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>, <webmaster@deadlysystems.com>
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Subject: Re: [mw] duh...


----- Original Message -----=20
From: <webmaster@deadlysystems.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 11:35 AM
Subject: [mw] duh...


> for example, does anyone else around here like delta9? or am i some =
kind of
> anomaly? > =
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Shrimp Cocktail.

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From mw-raves-return-34175-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 14:20:09 2003
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To: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>, <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
References: <4FA0D34F58BB0445AF7428ADD2CB7FA03C9D@sagittarius.gorhamstreet.net>
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

Tony, you packing heat nowadays?

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 2:49 AM
Subject: RE: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug =
War


12 months ago, I would've totally agreed with bill on this, and thought
ryan needed to chill out a bit.  At this point though, I've never seen
the US this close to a class/culture/race/value war.  And I'm almost
ready to cheer it on.

For better or worse, maybe its about time.

-t



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From mw-raves-return-34176-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 16:41:23 2003
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Subject: [mw] okay two things....

1) here is the best party lineup ever and if anyone knows how to get a 
flight to A-dam for less than $400 I am there:

AWAKENINGS FESTIVAL 05.07.2003
http://www.awakenings.nl

Open Stage
Alexander Kowalski ft. Raz O'hara
Miss Ladida
Adam Beyer
Bart Skils
Ben Sims
Marco Carola
Pascal F.E.O.S.
Stacey Pullen
Stefano Richetta

TFS 01
Alter Ego
Gayle San
Chris Liebing
Dave Clarke
Deimos & Yoyok
Rush
Marco Remus
Oscar Mulero
Stephan & Vincent de Wit

TFS 02
Pacou
Angela Flame
Cari LekeBusch
Diego
Jeff Mills
Joris Voorn
Steve Rachmad
Renato Cohen
Surgeon

UFO
TLR
The Hacker
Kid Goesting
dr. Lectroluv
Break 3000
Ellen Allien
Legowelt
Herr Arter vs Terry Toner

2) lets vote to impeach the entire Bush Administration... c'mon it will be 
fun !!!!

http://www.votetoimpeach.org/eachone.htm

~NightShade~

email: dj@djnightshade.net
web: http://www.djnightshade.net

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online  
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963


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From mw-raves-return-34177-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 16:43:05 2003
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From: "Matt Murphy" <murph@mr.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
References: <20030620051947.88190.qmail@web12208.mail.yahoo.com> <001d01c33721$51070990$389cde0c@Keller> <008901c33817$5cc1e4c0$0a01a8c0@bill> <000e01c33874$233937a0$389cde0c@Keller>
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

> process'.  The process is bullshit.  I have a feeling the Assault Weapons
> Ban will expire.  Not because it's the _right_ thing to do according to
the
> Constitution....but because it will be the _right_ thing to do to ensure
> Republicans get re-elected.

    You think allowing lunatics like yourself to run around with automatic
weapons is the _right_ thing to do??? You think putting more of those guns
on the streets, to be picked up or stolen by gangsters and little kids, is a
good thing? Do you really think an automatic weapon has any real use other
than killing people?

> The process has been screwed since we abandoned
> the Constitution.

    Really, so exactly when was it that we abandoned the constitution???
Maybe it was when we developed decent public education, or when Roosevelt
started the "new deal", or was it when we started attacking other countries
for our own profit, or maybe when we allowed women to go somewhere more
desireable than a back alley for their abortions?

    I agree that the patriot act and the rave act are blatently
unconstitutional, but I think they will both be abolished in time, with
enough challenges by the ACLU and such. This is still the democratic
process, it is still (kinda) the will of the people, and for right now it
seems like the people want these things, but in time the pendulum will swing
again, and we'll be back to practical government. That's how this whole
thing works ryan, it's a big national compromise, deciding how we want to
live our lives *together*, recognizing that we are not islands, and we are
stronger as a whole than as subsistence farmers living in log cabins.

Matt


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From mw-raves-return-34178-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 16:58:45 2003
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:00:48 -0400
From: David Burgis <burgisd@comcast.net>
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

Hmm... is anyone else getting a total Michigan Militia vibe offa this 
guy?

On Sunday, June 22, 2003, at 12:09  AM, Ryan wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bill" <drthundr@milwpc.com>
> To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 12:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the 
> Drug War
>
>
>> Ryan,
>
>> do you live in a "city"?
>
> No.
>
>> do you drive on "roads"?
>
> Yes.
>
>> but if you truly think you get nothing from your tax dollars, and 
>> feel the
> money has
>> been stolen from you, leave the country.
>
> The founders did not set the country up so one would have to leave to 
> have
> individual rights.  I believe in fighting for them.  Not letting the 
> facist
> win.
>
>> here's a thought, you could try to make a difference, if you truly 
>> feel you
> are being >robbed.  how about canvassing, contacting your 
> representatives in
> government, or >starting petitions?
>
> Laughable at best.  I understand your logic, but when Washington is 
> passing
> unconstitutional laws like it's bad gas....I have lost all trust in 
> 'the
> process'.  The process is bullshit.  I have a feeling the Assault 
> Weapons
> Ban will expire.  Not because it's the _right_ thing to do according 
> to the
> Constitution....but because it will be the _right_ thing to do to 
> ensure
> Republicans get re-elected.  The process has been screwed since we 
> abandoned
> the Constitution.  There is a slight possibility we can return to a
> constitution republic in a peaceful way.  Unfortunately, I have seen 
> the
> light and how people are...it will be anything but peaceful.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34179-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 17:04:48 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] okay two things....


djdeadlynightshade@hotmail.com wrote:
> 1) here is the best party lineup ever and if anyone knows how to get a 
> flight to A-dam for less than $400 I am there:

Not gonna happen for the summer unless you can be impulsive and take a 
last-minute deal.  Best bet would be take Air India ORD->LHR for ~$380, 
then ValuJet London Stansted->AMS for $68 / RT.  Intra-EU flights are 
really cheap right now.

gregory // not a travel agent, just a guy who travels a lot // dj lo


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From mw-raves-return-34180-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 17:19:31 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]


    Ryan, you're a moron, and have no fucking clue what you're talking
about. Ever heard of the welfare reform act of 1997? Ever heard of welfare
to work? I'm sorry to shatter your vision of the lazy welfare queen who has
no interest in working for a living, but that just doesn't exist. Maybe in
the worst days of the 80's, but certainly not now. The point of welfare is,
and I think it's doing a much better job of it now, (or, was, as the
republicans are cutting the most effective parts of it out) to give people a
safety net, and to give them the means by which to support themselves. Not a
free ride. Job training, child care, job placement. Requirements that people
work at least part time to receive assistance. The life of a single mother
on welfare is MUCH harder than any college kid working through school. If
you think people would rather live like that than support themselves you're
more cut off from reality than I can imagine.

    Things like decent educational systems, abuse prevention and protection,
and drug treatment are good ways to keep these people from digging
themselves that hole to begin with, but of course these are all "big
government" programs getting in the way of your right to choose, and their
right to choose the one choice that's been given to them, a life of poverty
and crime. It's easy to sit there as a product of the middle class and drone
on about personal choice and about how they created that situation for
themselves, but it's a far cry from the reality of the world that millions
of people in this country live in. Would you rather have those people living
in the streets, stealing from you, killing you, and making your world a
generally shittier place to live, so you can save that 4% or so from your
taxes? Or would you rather teach them how to live their lives decently, and
give them the tools and resources that let them get a job and support
themselves, contributing to our economy and your wealth? Of course, we'd
have to have low-end jobs that actually paid a livable wage, making that a
more attractive option than welfare, but that's another rant.

    Oh, that's right, you plan on "living rural and being prepared". So
you'd rather close your eyes, put you hands over your ears, and run out of
the room screaming? You'd rather live in fear of retribution for the only
choice your "freedom" loving ass has handed to the millions of poor and
uneducation in your country? THOSE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE PERSONAL FREEDOM, AND
THAT'S THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT. So when the cities collapse and everything
moves one rung out, what are you going to do, keep moving further away from
the problem?

     If you don't care about the rest of the people in your country, fine I
guess, I don't want to have anything to do with you, but that's your right.
But the bottom line is, improving the situation of the people around you
will help your quality of life as well. We have, as a country, decided that
giving *everyone* the ability to improve their quality of life is important.
The followthrough has been rather lacking, and frought with selfish bastards
like yourself, but some day we'll find the right balance, and maybe the
middle class will actually start growing again. (bwahahahahahhahahaha!)

    I think not only have we done a piss poor job of giving poor people an
opportunity to better themselves, but we're spending an insanely retarded
amount on our military. I believe in defending ourselves and fighting for
freedom around the world, but I don't believe in spending 37 times our
closes rival on our military. We could cut our military budget in half and
easily remain the dominant military on the planet. We could then give people
a 20% tax cut, *and* completely fund programs that help make productive
citizens out of our underclasses. Then, we'd actually be able to cut taxes,
as we'd have more people contributing, and less taking up space on our
welfare roles.

> Back in the day of the Constitution, people worked.  Lashoniqwa
> wouldn't have survived with her 4 bastard kids from 3 different fathers.

    You'd also be living in log homes, have no electricity, piss in an
outhouse, and spend all your day working 10 times as hard just to feed
yourself. You're an idiot.

Matt


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From mw-raves-return-34181-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 17:29:12 2003
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:48:04 -0500
From: atomly <atomly@atomly.com>
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

[Matt Murphy <murph@mr.net>]
> > Back in the day of the Constitution, people worked.  Lashoniqwa
> > wouldn't have survived with her 4 bastard kids from 3 different fathers.
> 
> You'd also be living in log homes, have no electricity, piss in an
> outhouse, and spend all your day working 10 times as hard just to feed
> yourself. You're an idiot.

Not only that, but this was one of the most racist statements I've seen
anybody make in years.  "Lashoniqwa?!?"  Yea, every person on welfare is
a single, black mother.  Nice one, dick.

Look, you can be as "rugged survivalist" as you want, but your dumb ass
went to college (subsidized by the state), probably had loans or grants
to go there (subsidized), went to public school before that
(subsidized), drove on roads or took public transportation to get there
and back (state run), and are now bitching about it on the internet
(created by the government using tax dollars).

I fucking love how many people "pull themselves up by their bootstraps,"
meaning they milk the government in their younger lives, and then grow
up and bitch about how the government is taking all of their tax money
to support those very same fucking programs.

-- 
:: atomly ::

[ atomly@atomly.com : www.atomly.com ...
[ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 312.804.5389 ...
[ e-mail atomly-news-subscribe@atomly.com for atomly info and updates ...

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From mw-raves-return-34182-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 17:52:14 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw]help elect a President who is against the Drug War

> Last time I check the
> shuttles didn't have a warp plasma core, so getting there won't be
happening
> anytime soon.

    And they never will, as long as nobody's willing to research it.

Matt


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From mw-raves-return-34183-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 17:53:49 2003
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From: "Matt Murphy" <murph@mr.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
References: <331HFsoYd2272S07.1056034229@uwdvg007.cms.usa.net> <003101c336c4$259aae90$389cde0c@Keller> <002e01c33723$9b4d18d0$6401a8c0@tctech.com> <001301c337af$2999dde0$389cde0c@Keller>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:50:18 -0500
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

> > as is done in most other democracies in the world.
>
> Democracy is what we are fighting against.  The "50%+1 vote" determines
law,
> regardless of what the constitution states, was not what this country was
> supposed to be.

    Actually, as a matter of fact, it was. It's called "by the people, for
the people". NOT "by the rich and selfish, for the rich and selfish".

Matt


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From mw-raves-return-34184-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 18:08:02 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

> Look, you can be as "rugged survivalist" as you want, 

...like that oklahoma federal building incident guy michael moore
interviewed in bowling for columbine.

!#$%! psychos...people like that are why i feel like i should own a
handgun.  not because the communists or the bushes or hamas are going to
come and cornhole me while i sleep, but because most of our wonderful
country is populated by stupid hicks who for some reaon feel that "we
need guns! big fucking guns!" (name the movie :D!) in order to protect
our rights fom the guv'mint--people who have somehow been snookered
(hey...anybody play snooker?) in to voting partisanly republican, and
wind up consistently screwed by the people they voted in to office. 
then, they blame the democrats for everything.

solutions! solutions! not more problems! and more d9!

...for some odd reason, the "mini-bible belt" doesn't like the beginning
of that "welcome to hell" track...hm...

-sean


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From mw-raves-return-34185-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 18:34:33 2003
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Thread-Topic: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War
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From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: "bill" <drthundr@milwpc.com>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: RE: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

Maybe I should be, but I don't think it'd really matter anyway.  I still
am not a member of any militia, and they don't need to hold a space at
their next meeting for me either cuz I won't be there.

I could be way off with this (and I know I'll hear about it, believe me)
but I think that the lines are coming down more and more between "us"
and "them".  I'm not a nut (stop laughing) but there's a lot of people
out there that will come to more drastic conclusions to their problems
than posting emails on a rave mailing list.  If the last few years have
proved anything, its that terrorism, which always failed in the 80's,
now *works*, if you can pull it off.

-t

Ps - what's with the high sausage content on the list this weekend?  No
wonder we sound like wackos.

-----Original Message-----
From: bill [mailto:drthundr@milwpc.com]=20
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 9:20 AM
To: Tony Sebion; mw-raves@hyperreal.org

Tony, you packing heat nowadays?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 2:49 AM
Subject: RE: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug
War


12 months ago, I would've totally agreed with bill on this, and thought
ryan needed to chill out a bit.  At this point though, I've never seen
the US this close to a class/culture/race/value war.  And I'm almost
ready to cheer it on.

For better or worse, maybe its about time.

-t





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From mw-raves-return-34186-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 20:19:59 2003
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To: "Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>,
	"Tad Dicks" <sluck604@yahoo.com>, "Jen303" <jen303@socket.net>,
	"catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>, <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
From: jen303@socket.net
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 20:19:55 GMT
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?]

I can't believe all those people were there and I stayed in Laurent Garnier's 
room the entire night.  I especially enjoyed the visuals outside and the 
hippies invading after "the deer creek incident" about 5am.  We ran into some 
hippie who wanted to build a space ship powered by "energy" based on 
turntables, a dj, and speakers in a pyramid....right.  He was on way more acid 
than any human should ever consume.  

Ah, good times :)


> Gee ya that's the greatest line up ever tad you poor shleterd soul must
> be from dayton
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tad Dicks [mailto:sluck604@yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:32 AM
> To: Jen303; catnap; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> Subject: Re: [mw] R U ?]
> 
> 
> Fantastic Voyage....
> 
> System 7, Terry Mullan, Dave Angel, Dj Dan, Claude
> young, carl craig, David Hollands, Billy Bob & Paris,
> Phantom 45, Danny the wildchild, Astroboy, Mike
> Huckaby and countless others.  I dont think the line
> up for any of the DEMF/Muvment festivals (or any other
> party) has even come close the full line up for that
> party.  Wasn't held at the actual Dayton fairgrounds
> but somewhere closer to Springfield. 
> 
> *sigh* sometimes I wish I could experience that whole
> summer repeatedly.
> 
> -tad
> 
> 
> --- Jen303 <jen303@socket.net> wrote:
> > Anyone remember a party in Ohio July 4th weekend
> > 1996 maybe?  Laurent
> > Garnier had his own room for 8 hours.  It was at the
> > Dayton fair grounds.
> > Any help would be appreciated.
> > 
> > Jen
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>
> > To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:57 PM
> > Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?]
> > 
> > 
> > aside from the comments of flag & mullet-waving
> > asshats, i do beleive there
> > is
> > a sound company that uses Turbosound equipment here
> > in Ohio, based out of
> > Cleveland.  They did 3 rooms of Turbo at Wishing
> > Well's "Winter Wonderland
> > 2"
> > rave last winter, putting my own 4th room PA system
> > to shame.  buuuut, i
> > think
> > HK Audio gear (especially the active stuff) could
> > give Turbo Sound a run for
> > its money.
> > 
> > -sim*n
> > 
> > 
> > DJ Catnap
> > "Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
> > Mecha Studios
> > mechastudios@usa.net
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
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> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
> 
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From mw-raves-return-34187-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 20:53:19 2003
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From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: <jen303@socket.net>,
	"Bill Spaulding" <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>,
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?]

If there's any part of the "rave experience" I miss the most, its those
people.

(well, as long as they don't want to play their recorder and read their
writings from their book at 8am while sitting by the fire I'm at)

-t


-----Original Message-----
From: jen303@socket.net [mailto:jen303@socket.net]=20
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 3:20 PM
To: Bill Spaulding; Tad Dicks; Jen303; catnap; mw-raves@hyperreal.org

 We ran into some hippie who wanted to build a space ship powered by
"energy" based on turntables, a dj, and speakers in a pyramid....right.
He was on way more acid than any human should ever consume. =20


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From mw-raves-return-34188-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 21:39:53 2003
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:43:06 -0400
From: David Burgis <burgisd@comcast.net>
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

Sorta... but the ultimate goal still seems to fail, or at the very 
least require an insane amount of luck to even sort of pull off. And 
it's still almost certainly destined to fail due to the overwhelming 
might of the American military.

It's like Lenin said back in early 1917 "While they have the guns, we 
will use the electorate. When we have the guns, we will use them." The 
thing is, while bullets are more efficient than ballots, trying to use 
lethal force just will not work against them... for now.

A combination of electoral work, mass demonstrations, and civil 
disobedience seems to be the best way to get stuff done for now, maybe 
with a stronger emphasis on non-violent action. Of course if we ever do 
get the guns...


On Sunday, June 22, 2003, at 02:33  PM, Tony Sebion wrote:

> Maybe I should be, but I don't think it'd really matter anyway.  I 
> still
> am not a member of any militia, and they don't need to hold a space at
> their next meeting for me either cuz I won't be there.
>
> I could be way off with this (and I know I'll hear about it, believe 
> me)
> but I think that the lines are coming down more and more between "us"
> and "them".  I'm not a nut (stop laughing) but there's a lot of people
> out there that will come to more drastic conclusions to their problems
> than posting emails on a rave mailing list.  If the last few years have
> proved anything, its that terrorism, which always failed in the 80's,
> now *works*, if you can pull it off.
>
> -t
>
> Ps - what's with the high sausage content on the list this weekend?  No
> wonder we sound like wackos.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bill [mailto:drthundr@milwpc.com]
> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 9:20 AM
> To: Tony Sebion; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>
> Tony, you packing heat nowadays?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 2:49 AM
> Subject: RE: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the 
> Drug
> War
>
>
> 12 months ago, I would've totally agreed with bill on this, and thought
> ryan needed to chill out a bit.  At this point though, I've never seen
> the US this close to a class/culture/race/value war.  And I'm almost
> ready to cheer it on.
>
> For better or worse, maybe its about time.
>
> -t
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
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>
-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34189-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 22:04:18 2003
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X-Originating-Email: [plasticportal@hotmail.com]
From: "Ryan Summers" <plasticportal@hotmail.com>
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: [mw] curious...


Anybody have any idea when Furthur is going to be... if at all?


Ryan / Plastic Portal
M&M Recordings http://www.mmrecordings.com

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From mw-raves-return-34190-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 22:07:31 2003
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From: JWeedShack@aol.com
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Subject: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug

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Well, Mr Murph@Mr. Net!!! I am impressed.  Such Knowledge about the 
constitution....the Government.  I'm with you.  They passed the Rave Act because they 
don't understand the true meaning behind a Rave.   Again, I will say...."Too 
many damn Kids popping bills they know nothing about, let alone respect."  I do 
not frown apon those that roll.  But for F@#$ sake, know what your putting in 
your mouth.  Let's put the roll aside....why is it that we go to these 
"Raves?"  For the DJ! For The Mix! The Atmosphere....The People.  These kids taking 
pills and not understanding what it means to roll have given our scene a bad 
name.  I am so tired of seeing those DAMN X commercials. 

--part1_30.41cb9785.2c278298_boundary--

From mw-raves-return-34191-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sun Jun 22 23:44:38 2003
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:44:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: Tony Sebion <tony@sebion.com>, jen303@socket.net,
  Bill Spaulding <bspaulding@hmscollc.com>, catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>,
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Subject: RE: [mw] R U ?]

Anyone else remember Farquar and um... someone else
(who started a sound company in Columbus called um..
jericho sound?).. They used to have some fucked up
shit to say :P  yes hanging out and making fun of
people or messing with peoples minds was definitely
fun.  Though now a days I'd be a little scared to mess
with soemoens head as their seems to be a rougher
"scarier" (read packing weapons) crowd at parties. 
*shrug*

-tad
--- Tony Sebion <tony@sebion.com> wrote:
> If there's any part of the "rave experience" I miss
> the most, its those
> people.
> 
> (well, as long as they don't want to play their
> recorder and read their
> writings from their book at 8am while sitting by the
> fire I'm at)
> 
> -t
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jen303@socket.net [mailto:jen303@socket.net] 
> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 3:20 PM
> To: Bill Spaulding; Tad Dicks; Jen303; catnap;
> mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> 
>  We ran into some hippie who wanted to build a space
> ship powered by
> "energy" based on turntables, a dj, and speakers in
> a pyramid....right.
> He was on way more acid than any human should ever
> consume.  
> 


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From mw-raves-return-34192-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 00:12:05 2003
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Subject: RE: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


>I could be way off with this (and I know I'll hear about it, believe me)
>but I think that the lines are coming down more and more between "us"
>and "them".  I'm not a nut (stop laughing) but there's a lot of people
>out there that will come to more drastic conclusions to their problems
>than posting emails on a rave mailing list.  If the last few years have
>proved anything, its that terrorism, which always failed in the 80's,
>now *works*, if you can pull it off.

I'm not a student of history, so if somebody has some historical comments on 
article on the accuracy, I'd love to hear them.

http://www.awitness.org/journal/bush_hitler.html

Ryan / Plastic Portal
M&M Recordings http://www.mmrecordings.com

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From mw-raves-return-34193-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 00:41:05 2003
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To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: [mw] its been a a few years since i posted anything on here......

+Class Reunion-

Reunion of Sorts on June 6th was a very special night in Madison.
It was filled with good friends, old friends, new friends, blue friends
and most of all, rock solid tunes from the yesteryears.  Going with
the same concept/theme, we bring you a Class Reunion.
Bring old photos, flyers, graduation caps, but most of all memories.




8.01.03  Re*unite once again...




+Student Council-

Chad Mindrive
(Gravity, Erotishock, San Fransisco, Ca.)
The driving force behind some of Madison most
Legendary and STILL talked about parties in Madison.
Help welcome back this Madison icon back to his roots.

Huggie
(Global Energy Musik, Jaded Soul Productions, Seattle, Wa.
Never fear, Huggie is here!  Long time friend and
guider of many styles of music to Madison, it will be a
treat to have Hector back in our fair city back.

Dan Efex
(Time Unlimited, Chicago, IL.)
If you haven't lost your mind to this guy at least
a few times in your life, there must be something wrong.
Welcome back the schizophrenic music that is Dan Efex.

Anonymous
(Addict Records, Anonymous Records, Windsor, WI.)
[color=gray] Being the first dj in Madison to introduce a number of people
to
the crack smokin' and choir boy massive styles of jungle. DJ Anonymous will
dig
into the way back crates for a set of golden oldies, his way....seen!!
[/color]


+Science Club-

+Jesse Collins
+Neehigh
+Dave J
+DAngelo Vs. +Mikey


+Chess Club-

+Kee (something up his sleeve?)
+Fade
+Tinhead Vs. +Kynd
+Moody Vs. +Dino



This will be held at the Bluefin located at 1291 N. Sherman Ave.
Starts promptly at 10 and goes until the usual bartime.
This Class Reunion will be strictly 21+ BRING ID!!!
Afterhours will be announced at the end of the night

+StealthNoiseUnit/Trim Records/Bluefin-
                608.258.0007

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From mw-raves-return-34194-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 02:29:24 2003
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:31:59 -0400
From: David Burgis <burgisd@comcast.net>
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

Yeah, I've seen that... as far as I could tell it's all pretty much 
true, leaving a few things out to make a point, but pretty much 
accurate except for a few points (that I noticed at least):

*The Neville Chamberlain speech about "Peace in our time" described the 
invasion of Czechoslovakia, not Austria as the article stated.

*And of course the invasion of Czechoslovakia did not start World War 
II as the article implied, but instead it was the occupation of Poland 
that sparked it.

And those mistakes really piss me off because the same points could 
have been made with the correct information intact. Because yes, the SS 
stood for the Homeland Securty forces, and yes the Nazi tactic of 
Blitzkrieg was referred to as "Shock and Awe" by historians.

In fact the article could have gone further and made reference to 
Goebbels statement that "If you tell a lie that's big enough, often 
enough, it will be accepted as truth (or something like that, I'm too 
lazy to look it up) and maybe tried to link it with the supposed WMD's, 
or the "link between Hussein and Bin Laden". And the author could have 
also mentioned that the Bush family was partially involved with the 
rise of the 3rd Reich with Prescott Bush being an important stockholder 
in IG Farben, the consortium that built and maintained the 
concentration camps, sold weapons and chemicals to the Nazis, and 
refused to sell them to the US.

But yeah, as far as I can tell, it's pretty accurate.

On Sunday, June 22, 2003, at 08:12  PM, Ryan Summers wrote:

>
>> I could be way off with this (and I know I'll hear about it, believe 
>> me)
>> but I think that the lines are coming down more and more between "us"
>> and "them".  I'm not a nut (stop laughing) but there's a lot of people
>> out there that will come to more drastic conclusions to their problems
>> than posting emails on a rave mailing list.  If the last few years 
>> have
>> proved anything, its that terrorism, which always failed in the 80's,
>> now *works*, if you can pull it off.
>
> I'm not a student of history, so if somebody has some historical 
> comments on article on the accuracy, I'd love to hear them.
>
> http://www.awitness.org/journal/bush_hitler.html
>
> Ryan / Plastic Portal
> M&M Recordings http://www.mmrecordings.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
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>
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>
-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34195-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 03:17:05 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

And the author
>could have also mentioned that the Bush family was partially involved with 
>the rise of the 3rd Reich with Prescott Bush being an important stockholder 
>in IG Farben, the consortium that built and maintained the concentration 
>camps, sold weapons and chemicals to the Nazis, and refused to sell them to 
>the US.

Yea, I've heard this.  Facism runs in his family.  Here's an interesting 
side note on that point...

http://prorev.com/bush2.htm

>But yeah, as far as I can tell, it's pretty accurate.

As strange as it sounds, I've never heard the idea that "terrorism" gave 
Hitler his dictatorial power.  Its errie how parallel these two histories 
are.

Ryan / Plastic Portal
M&M Recordings http://www.mmrecordings.com

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From mw-raves-return-34196-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 03:24:11 2003
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From: "Rev. Jeffrey Paul" <sneak@datavibe.net>
To: Ryan Summers <plasticportal@hotmail.com>
Cc: burgisd@comcast.net, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003, Ryan Summers wrote:
>
> As strange as it sounds, I've never heard the idea that "terrorism" gave
> Hitler his dictatorial power.  Its errie how parallel these two histories
> are.


godwin's law.  ouch.

-j

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From mw-raves-return-34197-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 03:27:41 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


>godwin's law.  ouch.

LOL! you're right...

I'll stop now :-)

Ryan / Plastic Portal
M&M Recordings http://www.mmrecordings.com

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From mw-raves-return-34198-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 04:45:25 2003
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From: "Matt Murphy" <murph@mr.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:41:49 -0500
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Subject: Re: [mw] curious...

> Anybody have any idea when Furthur is going to be... if at all?

    Doesn't sound good. But then, does it ever? I'm sure we'll hear from
kurt at some point...

Matt


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From mw-raves-return-34199-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 06:25:51 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

::::: could have also mentioned that the Bush family was partially involved 
with the rise of the 3rd Reich with Prescott Bush being an important 
stockholder in IG Farben, the consortium that built and maintained the 
concentration camps, sold weapons and chemicals to the Nazis, and refused to 
sell them to the US. :::::::

So then I guess by this arguement, every person whose family used to own 
slaves should be considered a rascist and bigot???  I dont think it is 
relevant to blame GW for being part of a family that two generations ago had 
shares of stock in a company that participated in heinous actions of 
WWII....

By the same logic, you should also arrest every shareholder of Enron, just 
because they owned stock in that company as well....

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From mw-raves-return-34200-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 11:39:20 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

> So then I guess by this arguement, every person whose family used to own
> slaves should be considered a rascist and bigot???

    No, although that reminds me of a good story...

    Sometime in the 70's some anthropologists were hanging out at a prep
school benefit dinner chatting. They were approached by a politician looking
a litte bit puzzled, who asked "Now, I know blacks aren't as smart as us,
but their heads seem to be the same size! So what's the deal, do they have
thicker skulls, more brain fluid, or what?" Of course the anthropologists
were shocked and spent a good amount of time chiding this guy. This question
later inspired a museum exhibit of different brains in fermaldihyd (sp?)
bottles of all different races. Naturally, you can't tell them apart. The
anthropologists nicknamed the exhibit after the politician. The George
Herbert Walker Bush exhibit was rather popular. (that's pappy bush)

Matt


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From mw-raves-return-34201-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 11:51:07 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: <ryry317@pobox.com>; "bill" <drthundr@milwpc.com>;
<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 2:49 AM
Subject: RE: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


>12 months ago, I would've totally agreed with bill on this, and thought
>ryan needed to chill out a bit.  At this point though, I've never seen
>the US this close to a class/culture/race/value war.  And I'm almost
>ready to cheer it on.

>For better or worse, maybe its about time.


I just found out the meeting of State Govs. and Bush will be in Indy in a
month or so (not confirmed).  I guess this will be our first real test of
WTO type protesting.  That could invoke a massive riot here.  Also, look at
Benton Harbor, MI.   Massive rioting there as well.


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From mw-raves-return-34202-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 12:37:44 2003
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:37:42 +0000
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

um.... What do you mean used to own slaves??

We have to give them up now??

Damn it all

  (0_o)


>From: "Rich G" <rikishi62@hotmail.com>
>To: plasticportal@hotmail.com, burgisd@comcast.net, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
>Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug 
>War
>Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:25:46 -0600
>
>::::: could have also mentioned that the Bush family was partially involved 
>with the rise of the 3rd Reich with Prescott Bush being an important 
>stockholder in IG Farben, the consortium that built and maintained the 
>concentration camps, sold weapons and chemicals to the Nazis, and refused 
>to sell them to the US. :::::::
>
>So then I guess by this arguement, every person whose family used to own 
>slaves should be considered a rascist and bigot???  I dont think it is 
>relevant to blame GW for being part of a family that two generations ago 
>had shares of stock in a company that participated in heinous actions of 
>WWII....
>
>By the same logic, you should also arrest every shareholder of Enron, just 
>because they owned stock in that company as well....
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*  
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From mw-raves-return-34203-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 17:27:01 2003
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X-USANET-Auth: 165.212.8.23    AUTO mechastudios@usa.net cmsweb06.cms.usa.net
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:26:54 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: "Ryan Summers" <plasticportal@hotmail.com>,
 <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: RE: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

Ryan, check out this thread from my message board.  someone posted that
article and we had a lively discussion about it:

http://mechamix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3D5326

enjoy,
sim*n

"Ryan Summers" <plasticportal@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>I'm not a student of history, so if somebody has =

>>some historical comments on article on the accuracy, =

>>I'd love to hear them.
> =

> http://www.awitness.org/journal/bush_hitler.html




DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34204-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 17:36:14 2003
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Subject: RE: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

I kinda wish they wouldn't have gotten so off track and said more stuff
about justin timberlake.

-t=20


-----Original Message-----
From: catnap [mailto:mechastudios@usa.net]=20
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 12:27 PM
To: Ryan Summers; mw-raves@hyperreal.org

Ryan, check out this thread from my message board.  someone posted that
article and we had a lively discussion about it:

http://mechamix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3D5326

enjoy,
sim*n

"Ryan Summers" <plasticportal@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>I'm not a student of history, so if somebody has some historical=20
>>comments on article on the accuracy, I'd love to hear them.
>=20
> http://www.awitness.org/journal/bush_hitler.html





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From mw-raves-return-34205-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 18:20:36 2003
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:20:28 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
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 <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] assault weapon ban

ryan,

i have to ask why you are happy the assault weapons ban is going expire s=
oon? =

as an assault/military weapons enthusiast myself, i have explored the wor=
ld of
legal machine guns, hi-cap mags, pre-ban firearms, etc.  i do think the
current ban fails in many ways (the "pre-ban" loophole makes it all legal=
, but
with a rediculous price hike to go with it.)

however, after much research and thought, i had to admit to myself that 9=
8% of
all law-abiding American citizens don't need a fully-automatic, high-capa=
city
firearm.  self-defense on a personal/home level is best done with a
low-caliber handgun (preferably a revolver.) an assault rifle can shoot
through a brick wall, and is unweildy in confined areas.  it's not the ri=
ght
thing to take on an intruder, is likely to kill innocent people in other =
rooms
and buildings, and is impossible to carry in a concealed manner.

if you interpret the 2nd Amendment as saying that an armed populace will
prevent a military takeover, i think that in 2003 that is no longer true.=
 =

even if you were armed with a full-auto AK-74 and a few grenades, you wou=
ldn't
last more than a few minutes against an average US Army squad, let alone =
a
SWAT team or other urban-combat trained force.  the truth is that the Ame=
rican
people have armed themselves against each other.  i don't deny our right =
to be
armed, but i'll trade my right to own an AK if it means a criminal isn't =
going
to be able stick one in my face.

i know how fun it is to "rock and roll" with a full-auto hicap AK, M-16, =
Uzi,
and other guns.  i got to do that a lot in the Boy Scouts, since one of t=
he
scoutmasters was an FBI agent and our most popular outing year after year=
 was
a visit to an FBI range in NY.  but given the small number of US citizens=
 who
live in areas remote enough to enjoy this kind of shooting, i feel it is
reasonable to ask them to give up this privledge in order to stop the flo=
w of
assault weapons into this country, and the manufacture of them here as we=
ll.

i have looked at the statistics and i know that the number of crimes comm=
itted
with so-called assault weapons is low, compared to conventional firearms.=
  but
i don't see that as a reason for relaxing the law!  they are super-lethal=

weapons that can multiply tenfold the death count when used in a crime.  =
and
almost all the non-military assault weapons like the ones made by Cobray,=

Intratec, SW Daniels, etc. are frighteningly shoddy & innacurate.  NO ONE=

needs a MAC-11, Street Sweeper, Sten, etc.  Military and law-enforcement =
won't
touch them!  Those weapons deserve to be banned and destroyed.

The Gun Lobby and the industries that support it need to take more
responsibility for the firearms they manufacture and sell.  I do beleive =
in
the whole "Guns don't kill people..." slogan, but it becomes rediculous w=
hen
you are arming folks with guns specifically designed to kill lots of peop=
le,
quickly.  I think the majority of legal gun owners in the USA are respons=
ible
people who are enjoying a centuries-old sport.  Gun manufacturers, import=
ers,
and lobbyists should show them some respect and support only guns that ha=
ve a
reasonable, peaceable purpose in our modern society. =


so i for one am willing to give up the right to own military-grade firear=
ms &
magazines in return for the knowledge that these weapons are not in the h=
ands
of anyone other than military and law enforcement personnel who need them=
=2E  i
still feel plenty safe with my Glock and its measly 10 round mag.   ;)

peace,
sim*n

       =



DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34206-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 18:21:55 2003
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:21:47 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
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Subject: RE: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]]

yeah, well what do you expect?  it's called "ravetrash" for a reason ;)

-sim*n

"Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com> wrote:
> I kinda wish they wouldn't have gotten so off track and said more stuff=

> about justin timberlake.
> =

> -t =

> =

> =

> -----Original Message-----
> From: catnap [mailto:mechastudios@usa.net] =

> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 12:27 PM
> To: Ryan Summers; mw-raves@hyperreal.org
> =

> Ryan, check out this thread from my message board.  someone posted that=

> article and we had a lively discussion about it:
> =

> http://mechamix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3D5326
> =

> enjoy,
> sim*n
> =

> "Ryan Summers" <plasticportal@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>I'm not a student of history, so if somebody has some historical =

> >>comments on article on the accuracy, I'd love to hear them.
> > =

> > http://www.awitness.org/journal/bush_hitler.html
> =

> =

> =

> =

> =

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> =

> =




DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34207-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 22:34:05 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

bill wrote:
> 
> dammit.  you are disappointing me!  are you in fact, deadly buda?
> 
> if not, then i forgive you not getting the reference to one of your own mixtapes.
> 
> -bill

ack! no...i am not, unfortunately, Deadly Buda...the man himself lives
in SoCal now, my apologies for the confusion...cc'd mw-raves jic
everybody else was thinkin' the same thing.

"anything stated by me does not reflect the opinions etc. of deadly
buda, deadly systems, yadda yadda yadda"

:D

i used to do the website several years back when it was all a bunch of
flash and javascript and whatnot...i think at one point he said "see
this? (c8.com) make it look like this" and away i went.  actually, ive
got a bunch of his old (like early 90s) mixtapes that im cutting to mp3,
its all oldschool rave stuff...gonna schlep it over to the website when
it's all finished...

-sean


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From mw-raves-return-34208-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 22:59:11 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Murphy" <murph@mr.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

>     You think allowing lunatics like yourself to run around with automatic
> weapons is the _right_ thing to do??? You think putting more of those guns
> on the streets, to be picked up or stolen by gangsters and little kids, is
a
> good thing? Do you really think an automatic weapon has any real use other
> than killing people?

Killing people (self-defense) is why we need weapons.  If I were to have
assult weapons, they would be locked up in a very thick $1,500 safe.  I
don't throw money into things to have them stolen.

>     Really, so exactly when was it that we abandoned the constitution???

When we started taking from one person (with threat of force) to give to
another for 'The greater good."

>     I agree that the patriot act and the rave act are blatently
> unconstitutional, but I think they will both be abolished in time, with
> enough challenges by the ACLU and such.

I wish I could agree with you...but in this era of progressiveness, the
Constitution is allowed to be bent.  Therefore, anything blatently
unconstitutional to some is very contitutional to others.  You said before
guns are killing machines...they are.  In the same respect that raves _are_
drug fest, just like many clubs in the major cites.  When people party, a
portion of them will do drugs.  So to some, this means banning raves is a
good thing because drugs are bad.

> That's how this whole
> thing works ryan, it's a big national compromise, deciding how we want to
> live our lives *together*, recognizing that we are not islands, and we are
> stronger as a whole than as subsistence farmers living in log cabins.

A slippery slope.  Under your logic, if 50%+1 vote to ban blacks from the
courthouse then we can 'compromise' that they are only allowed in the
lobby...it's ok.  It's not.  Why are you so upset at the Patriot and Rave
Act....I thought you were for 'compromise'.  That is what this is, the
politicians and club owners got together and made a compromise law that for
the most part affects parties held in various locations...not subject to one
venue (i.e.: a normal day to day operating business).  Granted you are right
about being stronger together...that is why many people are preparing
together to fight off the inner-city welfare rats when they try to start
burning down their neighborhood.  This whole thing is why the country is
doomed to fail.  Eventually I will be able to 'borrow' (they won't call it
stealing) your care for various things deemed to be 'for the greater good'
(i.e.: "I just _had_ to go get food.  Food is a necessity your honor.")


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From mw-raves-return-34209-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 23:06:42 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Burgis" <burgisd@comcast.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


> Hmm... is anyone else getting a total Michigan Militia vibe offa this
> guy?

I am not a big fan of many militia/patriot camps.  Many are nothing more
than right wing bible thumping facist.  They want us to believe in _their_
God, etc.

On a side note, I am sure many people in the areas near Benton Harbor, MI
have banned together to prevent the thugs from rioting (I actually can't
blame the people from rioting, but I don't agree with attacking
property/people who are not part of the problem.) in their neighborhoods.
During the L.A. Riots, there were live shots of rioting thugs getting picked
off by Korean merchants with AR-15s and the like.  Many of the areas miles
from the rioting joined together and got old, broken down vehicles together
incase streets needed to be blocked or cover was needed.  I honestly think
this is how this country will end up falling apart.  It's not too hard to
see:

LA Riots
Indy had a very small riot a few years back
Seattle Riots
Worldwide WTO riots
College campus riots
Woodstock riots
various concert riots
and now the Benton Harbor riots.

The 'mob mentality' can be a dangerous thing.  I have usually avoided such
gatherings of people.  However, now that word is that Bush maybe coming back
to town.  I honestly may go get my Israeli surplus gas mask and try to get
some good photos (mainly to sell).


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From mw-raves-return-34210-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 23:25:24 2003
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Subject: [mw] laugh at ryan's opinions thread

> to town.  I honestly may go get my Israeli surplus gas mask and try to get

    Speaking of Israel, I'd honestly love to hear your opinion on the whole
mideast mess. Personally, I don't think there can ever be peace there until
our support for Israel comes with conditions attached. (like they make a
serious effort to settle their differences)

    What do you think? (not that I'd really thought anything you've had to
say so far has been worth hearing, but it's entertaining to listen to right
wingers who've no clue what they're talking about rant on about crap)

Matt


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From mw-raves-return-34211-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 23:26:53 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Murphy" <murph@mr.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]


>
>     Ryan, you're a moron, and have no fucking clue what you're talking
> about. Ever heard of the welfare reform act of 1997? Ever heard of welfare
> to work? I'm sorry to shatter your vision of the lazy welfare queen who
has
> no interest in working for a living, but that just doesn't exist. Maybe in
> the worst days of the 80's, but certainly not now.

Didn't know you lived in the ghetto...oh, you don't?   Well I worked at a
bank in the hood.  Trust me, these people are _all_ about getting as much
for nothing as they can.  I had a few people tell me they are on disability,
but that they use their kids info to get work.  That way they get two
checks.  I had plenty of people bring their welfare cards into the branch
demanding we give them _their_ money.

> The point of welfare is, and I think it's doing a much better job of it
now, (or, was, > as the republicans are cutting the most effective parts of
it out) to give people a
> safety net,

You must be a racist.  Welfare isn't a 'safety net' (which implies a temp
fix) it's RIGHT!!!   At least that is what many of those on welfare scream.
Free childcare, free food, free healthcare, etc etc.  I have a hard time
feeling sorry for these people.

>     Things like decent educational systems, abuse prevention and
protection,
> and drug treatment are good ways to keep these people from digging
> themselves that hole to begin with, but of course these are all "big
> government" programs getting in the way of your right to choose, and their
> right to choose the one choice that's been given to them, a life of
poverty
> and crime.

I have a right to _my_ money.  Instead, the socialist believe I work for the
state and everything I own and make really just belongs to the state...but
they just allow us to have it.

 > Would you rather have those people living in the streets, stealing from
you, killing > you, and making your world a generally shittier place to
live, so you can save that > 4% or so from your taxes?

Killing me?  It's why we carry guns.  Fact is that when the riots start,
there will be a whole lot of killing.  Let me tell you, these people won't
magically become 'smart' and organize.  Instead they will have turf wars and
just blow each other away.  It's why I live rural.

> Of course, we'd
> have to have low-end jobs that actually paid a livable wage, making that a
> more attractive option than welfare, but that's another rant.

Yea, the horror of asking someone to shut their legs, wear a condom, or get
on the pill.  All I can say is that babies can be feed and cared for via
welfare $$$.  HIV/AIDS can't be stopped no matter how much money you throw
at it.  It will become a big factor in the next 10 years.  Especially since
the US is becoming more of a whore nation where 'babies daddy' seems to be
the norm across all races, classes, etc.

>     Oh, that's right, you plan on "living rural and being prepared". So
> you'd rather close your eyes, put you hands over your ears, and run out of
> the room screaming? You'd rather live in fear of retribution for the only
> choice your "freedom" loving ass has handed to the millions of poor and
> uneducation in your country?  So when the cities collapse and everything
> moves one rung out, what are you going to do, keep moving further away
from
> the problem?

It's not going to 'move further out'.  Sad, but that is what is going to
happen---that's when the bullets start flying.  The clash between the
middle/upper middle class and the welfare class.  The middle-upper middle
class work hard for their suburban homes, they won't let inner city trash
with no morals destroy their homes.  I don't think they will join the
throngs of crack heads with 4 kids (3 different dads) in attacking the rich
and elite.  In fact, my money is that the middle class will take one look at
the inner-city/section 8 types and choose to fight with the upper class.

> *and* completely fund programs that help make productive
> citizens out of our underclasses.

Until the underclass learn and practice basic morals, they are doomed.  You
cannot just keep popping out bastard after bastard and live your life
according to rap/hip-hop "fuck hoes, knock'em up, I can't stand my babies
mama" music and expect to go anywhere in life.  Sad fact is _many_ people
are stating to live a 'party' life of just living for fun.  This inner-city
lifestyle has crossed over into suburban America.  We are doomed.


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From mw-raves-return-34212-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 23:35:32 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]


----- Original Message -----
From: "atomly" <atomly@atomly.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

>
> Not only that, but this was one of the most racist statements I've seen
> anybody make in years.  "Lashoniqwa?!?"  Yea, every person on welfare is
> a single, black mother.  Nice one, dick.

You heard the name "Lashoniqwa" and the word 'welfare" and it was _YOU_ who
assumed I was talking about a black person.  I think you need to look into
the mirror.  I guess everytime you hear 'welfare' you think of a black
person.

> Look, you can be as "rugged survivalist" as you want, but your dumb ass
> went to college (subsidized by the state), probably had loans or grants
> to go there (subsidized), went to public school before that
> (subsidized),

I have $10,000 in college loans and got NO free money as I am white and
middle class.  My parents nor I ever got freebies.  My parents paid for
childcare, while I know a few single moms that get it free.  You think they
will ever have to pay that back?  Didn't think so.  So while I _am_ paying
back a _loan_ that earned interest while I was in school and a hire rate now
that I am out.....millions of people on welfare will not give one dime back
to the government.  I just love equality!!!

>drove on roads or took public transportation to get there
> and back (state run), and are now bitching about it on the internet
> (created by the government using tax dollars).

I have paid taxes.  Most of the welfare people don't pay a dime.  They are
_consumers_.   I am a _producer_.  Do you support bans on those who don't
pay taxes from driving on the roads?  Using the internet?  Didn't think so.
So you believer certain people should be able to use things paid for by
others...but when the others bitch, you try to act like it is they who are
using the system.

> I fucking love how many people "pull themselves up by their bootstraps,"
> meaning they milk the government in their younger lives, and then grow
> up and bitch about how the government is taking all of their tax money
> to support those very same fucking programs.

Give me a break.  My parents paid _plenty_ in taxes for our school.  They
paid _plenty_ in income, gas, road, property, capital gains, etc etc. and
the only "handout" we ever got was the _ability_ to take a _loan_ from the
government for college.   When they asked for free money, they got a big
"fuck you" from the government.  I guess after paying for childcare, school
supplies, school lunches...you obviously don't have a need for free school.
But if your on welfare (and get the above free, never having to pay it
back), you are in the special class that gets totally free schooling.


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From mw-raves-return-34213-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 23:37:09 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]


----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Murphy" <murph@mr.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

>
>     Actually, as a matter of fact, it was. It's called "by the people, for
> the people".

Only if the law is constitutional.  Not only that, we don't even have an
'every vote counts' system.  We have an electoral college...the only system
that means you can get less votes, but _still_ win the presidency.


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From mw-raves-return-34214-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 23:42:50 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

[Ryan <ryry317@pobox.com>]
> You heard the name "Lashoniqwa" and the word 'welfare" and it was
> _YOU_ who assumed I was talking about a black person.  I think you
> need to look into the mirror.  I guess everytime you hear 'welfare'
> you think of a black person.

Yea, you go on telling yourself that.  I'll believe you used the name
"Lashoniqwa" and didn't mean a black woman.  Honest, I will.

> I have paid taxes.  Most of the welfare people don't pay a dime.  They
> are _consumers_.   I am a _producer_.  Do you support bans on those
> who don't pay taxes from driving on the roads?  Using the internet?
> Didn't think so.  So you believer certain people should be able to use
> things paid for by others...but when the others bitch, you try to act
> like it is they who are using the system.
> 
> Give me a break.  My parents paid _plenty_ in taxes for our school.  They
> paid _plenty_ in income, gas, road, property, capital gains, etc etc. and
> the only "handout" we ever got was the _ability_ to take a _loan_ from the
> government for college.   When they asked for free money, they got a big
> "fuck you" from the government.  I guess after paying for childcare, school
> supplies, school lunches...you obviously don't have a need for free school.
> But if your on welfare (and get the above free, never having to pay it
> back), you are in the special class that gets totally free schooling.

I don't think you got my fucking point.  You paid taxes, you used the
services, now you're bitching about taxes.  I didn't say you shouldn't
use the roads or the internet, I'm saying your dumb ass should shut up
and realize that the government provides useful services by using tax
money.

-- 
:: atomly ::

[ atomly@atomly.com : www.atomly.com ...
[ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 312.804.5389 ...
[ e-mail atomly-news-subscribe@atomly.com for atomly info and updates ...

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From mw-raves-return-34215-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 23:43:08 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: "bill" <drthundr@milwpc.com>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 1:33 PM
Subject: RE: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

>I could be way off with this (and I know I'll hear about it, believe me)
>but I think that the lines are coming down more and more between "us"
>and "them".  I'm not a nut (stop laughing) but there's a lot of people
>out there that will come to more drastic conclusions to their problems
>than posting emails on a rave mailing list.  If the last few years have
>proved anything, its that terrorism, which always failed in the 80's,
>now *works*, if you can pull it off.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  There are dark skys on the horizon.
It won't be pretty.



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From mw-raves-return-34216-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 23:50:28 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Burgis" <burgisd@comcast.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

>  Of course if we ver do get the guns...

What?  If the "Give me MORE!!" types get guns...what are they going do:

1: Go up against well armed people and die.

or

2: Win their armed revolution and kill or scare off 75% or more of the
people that funded the vast money pit known as the U.S. Treasury.

They are damned if they do, damned if they don't.  I can't see those people
living in Section 8 housing units somehow becoming CEOs, heart surgeons,
etc.

Then you have to say "What if the upper class surrenders and agrees to a 50%
tax rate on their income.?"  Simple, we get new jobs with less work that pay
less.  Thus the treasury dries up and the wasteful programs all dry up.


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From mw-raves-return-34217-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Mon Jun 23 23:52:28 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Summers" <plasticportal@hotmail.com>
To: <burgisd@comcast.net>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

>
> Yea, I've heard this.  Facism runs in his family.  Here's an interesting
> side note on that point...

What current U.S. politician doesn't have some Fascism/Communism in their
blood?  I think it's a requirement.


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From mw-raves-return-34218-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 00:00:34 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

No, it just slightly makes the parallels stronger, that's all. It was 
kind of extraneous info.

Though if said person whose family had owned slaves, then refused to 
apologize or even pretend to feel bad about it, then one could make a 
point that they were at least vaguely racist. But it doesn't mean that 
he is, it just means that he refuses to acknowledge his family history.

And of course there's a difference between owning stock in a company 
that behind the scenes cheated and stole from their employees, but in 
theory was supposed to be an energy company, and owning stock in what 
was blatantly a Nazi front group.


On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 02:25  AM, Rich G wrote:

> ::::: could have also mentioned that the Bush family was partially 
> involved with the rise of the 3rd Reich with Prescott Bush being an 
> important stockholder in IG Farben, the consortium that built and 
> maintained the concentration camps, sold weapons and chemicals to the 
> Nazis, and refused to sell them to the US. :::::::
>
> So then I guess by this arguement, every person whose family used to 
> own slaves should be considered a rascist and bigot???  I dont think 
> it is relevant to blame GW for being part of a family that two 
> generations ago had shares of stock in a company that participated in 
> heinous actions of WWII....
>
> By the same logic, you should also arrest every shareholder of Enron, 
> just because they owned stock in that company as well....
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*  
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-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34219-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 00:11:53 2003
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From: rbgrn <rbgrn@rbgrn.net>
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

> > I fucking love how many people "pull themselves up by their bootstraps,"
> > meaning they milk the government in their younger lives, and then grow
> > up and bitch about how the government is taking all of their tax money
> > to support those very same fucking programs.
> 
> Give me a break.  My parents paid _plenty_ in taxes for our school.  They
> paid _plenty_ in income, gas, road, property, capital gains, etc etc. and
> the only "handout" we ever got was the _ability_ to take a _loan_ from the
> government for college.   When they asked for free money, they got a big
> "fuck you" from the government.  I guess after paying for childcare, school
> supplies, school lunches...you obviously don't have a need for free school.
> But if your on welfare (and get the above free, never having to pay it
> back), you are in the special class that gets totally free schooling.
> 

There's the magic word again.. "Parents"...

"My Parents worked hard!"
"My Parents supported the system!"
"My Parents paid for my school fair and square!"
"My Parents donated a portion of their dividends to charity so they
could write it off that year!"

You're seeing the complete opposite of what people are asking you to
see. You're missing the simple fact that you HAD good parents that
WORKED HARD to build a good life for themselves and their children! You
are taking that for granted and acting as if everyone has that same,
equals starting point in life! THEY DON'T! Imagine where you'd be today
if you had a mother who worked at various fast food restaurants for the
past 18 years while you never met your dad. Capital Gains? Loans? Hah!

I can't say your logic is insane. Most of it really makes sense. The
problem is simply that the key factor to the fairness equation is how
we're all launched into the real world. I was very fortunate. I grew up
in a nice small city with good neighborhoods, well to do parents, good
social programs, etc.. Unlike welfare kids, I actually had the
opportunity to buy a PC and learn tons of shit that was the seed to my
professional career. I feel lucky, and I actually acknowledge that
I was given a better start to life than most. You did too. And by that,
you can't use the word "fair" unless your comparisons have equal
opportunities.

    -Rob


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From mw-raves-return-34220-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 00:12:49 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

Honestly I was just running with the metaphor, I don't think just 
giving a gun to every revolutionary is gonna do it. What I was thinking 
more when I said "we get the guns" was that when the people's armed 
might outnumbers the status quo's power. Which, well, is extremely 
unlikely to happen anytime soon. And of course I was also thinking that 
it would be combined with a drive towards worldwide "true socialism", 
none of the state-capitalism like in the USSR. That would solve the 2nd 
problem, if it could work (which is of course the major problem, 
getting it to work).

On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 07:55  PM, Ryan wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Burgis" <burgisd@comcast.net>
> To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 4:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the 
> Drug War
>
>>  Of course if we ver do get the guns...
>
> What?  If the "Give me MORE!!" types get guns...what are they going do:
>
> 1: Go up against well armed people and die.
>
> or
>
> 2: Win their armed revolution and kill or scare off 75% or more of the
> people that funded the vast money pit known as the U.S. Treasury.
>
> They are damned if they do, damned if they don't.  I can't see those 
> people
> living in Section 8 housing units somehow becoming CEOs, heart 
> surgeons,
> etc.
>
> Then you have to say "What if the upper class surrenders and agrees to 
> a 50%
> tax rate on their income.?"  Simple, we get new jobs with less work 
> that pay
> less.  Thus the treasury dries up and the wasteful programs all dry up.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: mw-raves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
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>
-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34221-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 00:18:21 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] assault weapon ban


----- Original Message -----
From: "catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: <ryry317@pobox.com>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [mw] assault weapon ban


ryan,

>i have to ask why you are happy the assault weapons ban is going expire
soon?
>as an assault/military weapons enthusiast myself, i have explored the world
of
>legal machine guns, hi-cap mags, pre-ban firearms, etc.  i do think the
>current ban fails in many ways (the "pre-ban" loophole makes it all legal,
but
>with a rediculous price hike to go with it.)

Because the law is stupid.  If you have money, then you can afford guns.
It's a law that affected the poor the most.  I guess you can't have the
lower class armed with a magazine over 10 rounds.

>however, after much research and thought, i had to admit to myself that 98%
of
>all law-abiding American citizens don't need a fully-automatic,
high-capacity
>firearm.  self-defense on a personal/home level is best done with a
>low-caliber handgun (preferably a revolver.) an assault rifle can shoot
>through a brick wall, and is unweildy in confined areas.  it's not the
right
>thing to take on an intruder, is likely to kill innocent people in other
rooms
>and buildings, and is impossible to carry in a concealed manner.

Give me a break.  There are plenty of good reasons to use an assult rifle
for self-defense.  If the perps have kevlar on, your handgun isn't going to
do shit.  If they hide behind their car, your handgun _might_ penetrate the
car.   Personally, due to where I live...I would never grab an assult rifle.
I am a firm believe that you are responsible for what your bullet does.  I
am seriously considering a purchase of a .308.  Also, high-capacity is a
fucking joke.  30 rounds mags for an AK, AR, HK and 15 round mags for a
Glock are _NORMAL_ capacity.  It's not like these magazines were made to get
sales.  It's like saying our military is using, non-normal magazines.  WTF?
Some magazines were normally made to hold 7-10 rounds (single stack), others
were made to be double stacked and hold 13-21, and rifle mags are for sure
made to hold 20-30 rounds.  That is NORMAL, not some kind of special (called
'high') capacity magazine.

>if you interpret the 2nd Amendment as saying that an armed populace will
>prevent a military takeover, i think that in 2003 that is no longer true.
>even if you were armed with a full-auto AK-74 and a few grenades, you
wouldn't
>last more than a few minutes against an average US Army squad, let alone a
>SWAT team or other urban-combat trained force.

You are very mistaken.  The only reason SWAT teams are so good is because
they train and are ready.  It's a fact that _many_ targets of such groups
are not wearing their AK at the time of entry.  It's also true that 3 of our
troops from Indy killed recently were killed by a simple AK or AR rifle
round.  The governmnet wants to take out the problem people, but make sure
they can still have something to rule over.  This means the Army isn't going
to destroy buildings and dams, etc.  Besides, I find it scary that you think
the Army would just turn on the people.  There would be factions and people
who change sides.

>but i'll trade my right to own an AK if it means a criminal isn't going to
be able >stick one in my face.

?  So you would feel better if the guy was armed with a Glock.  Give me a
break.

>so i for one am willing to give up the right to own military-grade firearms
&
>magazines in return for the knowledge that these weapons are not in the
hands
>of anyone other than military and law enforcement personnel who need them.
i
>still feel plenty safe with my Glock and its measly 10 round mag.

You want law enforcement, the same people enforcing the Patriot Act, to have
these weapons...but the citizens can't?  There have been _plenty_ of
incidents of no-knock raids on wrong homes, cops going crazy and shooting
people, etc etc.   The people need battle rifles.  They don't need them for
the typical home invader.  They _do_ need them to stop the welfare trash
from crossing the river, the county line, etc etc.  You don't want military
arms, fine...don't have one.  I for one want to have one so if I need it...I
will have it.


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From mw-raves-return-34222-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 00:20:39 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 07:11  PM, Ryan wrote:
>
> LA Riots
> Indy had a very small riot a few years back
> Seattle Riots
> Worldwide WTO riots
> College campus riots
> Woodstock riots
> various concert riots
> and now the Benton Harbor riots.

Honestly I think of Seattle in '99, what happened in San Francisco a 
few months ago, all the G8/WTO/NAFTA protesting, and Benton Harbor as 
less riots so much as uprisings.

Take Benton Harbor for instance, if the exact same chain of events had 
occurred (long history of police brutality, massive economic and race 
discrimination, then a man being killed, followed by a community 
meeting that was shut down because the populace was "too angry" 
followed by the people rising up and storming through the town while 
shouting "No justice, no peace") in say, Baghdad a year ago, or Tehran 
right now, it would be known as an uprising, not a riot. But because 
it's a protest against the American establishment it's considered a 
riot.

I mean, don't get me wrong, there are certainly people who are taking 
advantage of the situation to engage in petty theft, but as far as I 
can tell reading news reports, and from a secondhand discussion with 
some community leaders there, all in all I can say that for the most 
part I supported what happened there.

-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34223-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 00:23:16 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] assault weapon ban


On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 08:23  PM, Ryan wrote:
>
> You want law enforcement, the same people enforcing the Patriot Act, 
> to have
> these weapons...but the citizens can't?  There have been _plenty_ of
> incidents of no-knock raids on wrong homes, cops going crazy and 
> shooting
> people, etc etc.   The people need battle rifles.  They don't need 
> them for
> the typical home invader.  They _do_ need them to stop the welfare 
> trash
> from crossing the river, the county line, etc etc.  You don't want 
> military
> arms, fine...don't have one.  I for one want to have one so if I need 
> it...I
> will have it.
>

Or, y'know, more civilian control over the police and the government. 
Just a thought...

-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34224-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 00:24:43 2003
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From: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
References: <123B395A-A4D3-11D7-A6A8-003065A42C16@comcast.net> <001301c339dc$c6abebd0$389cde0c@Keller> <000801c339de$352647d0$6401a8c0@tctech.com>
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Subject: Re: [mw] laugh at ryan's opinions thread


----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Murphy" <murph@mr.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 6:21 PM
Subject: [mw] laugh at ryan's opinions thread

>     What do you think? (not that I'd really thought anything you've had to
> say so far has been worth hearing, but it's entertaining to listen to
right
> wingers who've no clue what they're talking about rant on about crap)

I know, you fascists really can't stand people advocating personal
responsibility....but I know your kind suffer from mental illness, so I
understand.

On the whole Israel thing:  I don't support foreign aid....so I don't really
care for Israel, Egypt, Jordan, etc.   I could careless if the Palestinians
nuke Tele Avi or if the Jews nuke every Muslim country around them.  If we
cut our military budget and put our troops on our borders, guarding our
country like they should be.  And we get ride of foreign aid with all that
tax money going _back_ to the taxpayers...I really can't say I would mind
welfare trash then.  I view the Palestinians and the IDF as freedom
fighters.  Groups fighting over land.  It's been that way since the
beginning.  I just wish we were not involved.


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From mw-raves-return-34225-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 00:57:38 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] laugh at ryan's opinions thread

::::::::::Speaking of Israel, I'd honestly love to hear your opinion on the 
whole
mideast mess. Personally, I don't think there can ever be peace there until
our support for Israel comes with conditions attached. (like they make a
serious effort to settle their differences):::::::::::

I think the Bush administration has made a huge effort in trying to 
blackball Israel into a more favorable peace agreement.  You have to 
remember that at the talks a couple of years ago...Israel offered many 
conditions that shocked most of the Jewish populace....and the Palestinians 
still turned it down.

This specific conflict is a lot more complicated than just blaming one side 
for all the atrocities.  Its the proverbial question of which came first the 
chicken or the egg...

flame on....

_________________________________________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34226-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 01:03:22 2003
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X-USANET-Auth: 165.212.8.8     AUTO mechastudios@usa.net uwdvg008.cms.usa.net
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:03:13 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>,
 <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: [Re: [mw] assault weapon ban]

"Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com> wrote:
>Because the law is stupid.  If you have money, then you can afford guns.=

>It's a law that affected the poor the most.  I guess you can't have the
>lower class armed with a magazine over 10 rounds.

actually we don't need any "class" armed with a magazine over 10 rounds. =

period.

>Give me a break.  There are plenty of good reasons to use an assult rifl=
e
>for self-defense.  If the perps have kevlar on, your handgun isn't going=
 >to
do shit.  If they hide behind their car, your handgun >_might_penetrate t=
he
car.   =


"if the perps have kevlar on"?!!  You are either one delusional, paranoid=

person, or a a gangbanger/mafia type if you have to worry about kevlar-ar=
mored
goons attacking you & having a massive shootout in front of your house.

you might as well try making a case for owning rocket launchers, just in =
case
the "perps" come after you with an armored car.  and don't forget to keep=
 a
spare stinger missile in the closet in case you see a black helicopter fl=
ying
over your neighborhood.

>Personally, due to where I live...I would never grab an assult rifle.
>I am a firm believe that you are responsible for what your bullet does. =
 =


dude, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.  if kevlar armored=

perps come to your house to kill you, aren't you gonna need that assault =
rifle
no matter where you live?  =


>30 rounds mags for an AK, AR, HK and 15 round mags for a
>Glock are _NORMAL_ capacity.  It's not like these magazines were made >t=
o get
sales.  It's like saying our military is using, non-normal >magazines.  W=
TF?

yeah, that's exactly right - our military does use "non-normal" mags, fro=
m a
consumer standpoint.  it is not normal for a regular person to need a 30 =
round
magazine for a self-defense or hunting situation. that is the difference
between military and non-military hardware.

you're not fighting a war, and you're not about to fight a war, so you do=
n't
need weapons of war.  sorry to fuck up your paranoid daydreams there, Ram=
bo. =



>You are very mistaken.  The only reason SWAT teams are so good is becaus=
e
>they train and are ready.  It's a fact that _many_ targets of such group=
s
>are not wearing their AK at the time of entry.  =


so i assume you'll be waiting on your couch with your loaded AK, just in =
case
the SWAT team comes for you.  might i suggest some claymore mines for you=
r
front and back yards?  might buy you that extra few minutes you need to p=
ull
off some critical headshots before you get whacked by a sniper.  oh and o=
f
course, your heroic death will then spark the mother of all race wars.

>Besides, I find it scary that you think
>the Army would just turn on the people.  =


oh yeah, it makes complete sense that you are expecting an attack from a =
SWAT
team, or other armored "perp" but our patriotic boys in the Army or Natio=
nal
Guard would never do a thing like that.  mmmmhmmm.

>So you would feel better if the guy was armed with a Glock.  =


yeah, if we're debating firepower here, i would.

>The people need battle rifles.  They don't need them for
>the typical home invader.  They _do_ need them to stop the welfare trash=

>from crossing the river, the county line, etc etc.  =


Yep, when the SWAT teams, MIB's, darkies, welfare moms, and tax-stealing
liberals come for your women and children it'll be a good thing you have =
that
battle rifle ready to blow their asses to kingdom come.  yippeekaiyay
motherfuckers!

nothin like a warm assault weapon to ease that white man's burden. ;)


DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34227-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 01:03:46 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

::::::No, it just slightly makes the parallels stronger, that's all. It was 
kind of extraneous info.

Though if said person whose family had owned slaves, then refused to 
apologize or even pretend to feel bad about it, then one could make a point 
that they were at least vaguely racist. But it doesn't mean that he is, it 
just means that he refuses to acknowledge his family history.:::::::::

My point is this, as a history student, I find it extremely necessary not to 
judge political figures on what their ancestors did...to a point.  To me, 
GW's grandfather having stock in a company like this does not impugn his 
character at all.  I will not judge someone for decisions that he had no 
effect on making....

:::::::And of course there's a difference between owning stock in a company 
that behind the scenes cheated and stole from their employees, but in theory 
was supposed to be an energy company, and owning stock in what was blatantly 
a Nazi front group.:::::::::::

True...but Hitler was Time's man of the year in 1939.  He was single 
handedly responsible for Germany being the first country out of the Great 
Depression.  As horrible as he was...and I am guessing at the time of 
Preston Bush's investment...Im not well versed on this so I could be 
wrong....it was just good business practice to invest in this 
company...although i would like to see the amount of his investment, and the 
amount of control he had in the company's decision before I would make any 
other judgements....

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From mw-raves-return-34228-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 01:05:21 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

:::::::::::::::I can't say your logic is insane. Most of it really makes 
sense. The
problem is simply that the key factor to the fairness equation is how
we're all launched into the real world.:::::::::::

There is a huge difference between fairness and equality...And Im not sure I 
can tell which one is more relevant to the times of our society....

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From mw-raves-return-34229-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 01:43:41 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War



>
> My point is this, as a history student, I find it extremely necessary 
> not to judge political figures on what their ancestors did...to a 
> point.  To me, GW's grandfather having stock in a company like this 
> does not impugn his character at all.  I will not judge someone for 
> decisions that he had no effect on making....

Sure, of course not. One of the things this country was, at least in 
theory, based on was that what matters is what a man does, not who his 
father was. Now of course, that doesn't really happen, as Dubya's life 
proves, seeing as he seemed to coast through life using his father's 
name rather than his own effort. But at the very least an effort should 
be made to do the right
thing and not judge him. It does imply that Prescott Bush should be 
judged however.

And to be fair, I never said that Shrub should be judged by that. I 
just mentioned it because it was another connection that Bush had with 
the Nazi's, that not only has he acted in similar ways to Hitler, but 
that his family had dealings with them too. Not that he had dealings 
with them or in truth had any real relation with the Third Reich.

> True...but Hitler was Time's man of the year in 1939.  He was single 
> handedly responsible for Germany being the first country out of the 
> Great Depression.  As horrible as he was...and I am guessing at the 
> time of Preston Bush's investment...Im not well versed on this so I 
> could be wrong....it was just good business practice to invest in this 
> company...

Sure, so even after Hitler invaded Poland, put the persecution of Jews, 
Slavs, Roma, Socialists, and Homosexuals into high gear,  sterilized 
mental patients, and oh yeah, declared war on the U.S., there were no 
moral qualms in continuing his investment. While I'm certainly not 
saying that he was a Nazi, I have no way of knowing it, and in fact 
doubt it, I am saying that he definitely put profits before people. And 
his assets from UBC and IG Farben were seized in late 1942, if he had 
been willing to use his conscience, he would have had plenty of time to 
pull out.

> although i would like to see the amount of his investment, and the 
> amount of control he had in the company's decision before I would make 
> any other judgements....

Well I know he was on the board of directors, and was named 
specifically in government's filing of a Trading With the Enemy seizure 
of property, I don't know how many shares he owned, or what measure of 
control he had. I'm willing to bet that he wasn't involved in the 
workings of the company or anything like that, most likely he was just 
on the board because of his business and political connections, and his 
only job was to rubber stamp whatever was done, and collect dividends. 
I'd be interested in finding out how extensive his involvement really 
was.

-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34230-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 02:06:41 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] laugh at ryan's opinions thread


On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 08:57  PM, Rich G wrote:

> I think the Bush administration has made a huge effort in trying to 
> blackball Israel into a more favorable peace agreement.  You have to 
> remember that at the talks a couple of years ago...Israel offered many 
> conditions that shocked most of the Jewish populace....and the 
> Palestinians still turned it down.

Though there were some reasons for that. Clinton tried to rush the 
peace process through so he would be involved in it, so he didn't 
bother trying to get Arab support for it beforehand, which meant that 
Arafat was in a very tight place. If he had agreed to it without Arab 
support, and the Arabs didn't like what he did, then the Palestinians 
would have been in serious trouble with all of their neighbors, and 
some right-wing extremist could have easily killed Arafat for that. So 
sure, he should have shown more balls, but it wasn't totally his fault. 
If anything, people should blame Clinton and Barak for trying to push 
it through without setting everything up first along with Arafat for 
not taking risks.

Oh yeah, let's not forget Sharon. He is the one that sparked off the 
current state of affairs with his visit to the Dome of the Rock, not to 
mention continuing the military action which really isn't working. I'd 
say that for right now, the ball is largely in the Israeli court for 
ending it. If they end the settlements and stop occupying the 
territories, all, or at least 99.99% of the suicide bombings would 
stop. Now that's not to say that the terrorist organizations are just 
responding in a reasonable manner, but I would say that it would be 
easier to get the Israeli's to stop the occupation first, then the 
other way around.

> This specific conflict is a lot more complicated than just blaming one 
> side for all the atrocities.  Its the proverbial question of which 
> came first the chicken or the egg...

Yeah... have you ever heard the David Rovics song "Jenin"? It's a 
fairly standard weepy folk song, that talks about a Palestinian girl 
who's entire family died in Jenin, so in anger she blew up a bus full 
of Israelis. Kinda relevant. Each Israeli action causes a Palestinian 
reaction which causes an Israeli reaction which causes a Palestinian 
reaction which... and so on.

Something that really pisses me off is that about the modern left 
honestly is this thought that Israel is just some big evil, and the 
Palestinians are hopeless, and this is their only reaction to 
state-sponsored terrorism. Or that Palestinians have a right, but 
Israelis don't. Obviously that's bullshit. Call me utopian, but I'd say 
that there is a lot the Palestinians can do that doesn't involve 
killing innocent civilians (and of course same for the Israelis). Say, 
non-violent protest? I know that it would, especially at first, lead to 
a lot of deaths coming from Israeli forces, but then again, so is 
what's happening right now, and  at least this is more photogenic and 
is more likely to get the Israeli people to try to end the occupation.

Though I am going to have to say that the egg came first. Some sort of 
"proto-chicken" laid the egg of the modern chicken. If you accept 
evolution then it makes the most sense. :-b

-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34231-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 02:15:22 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

> > You heard the name "Lashoniqwa" and the word 'welfare" and it was
> > _YOU_ who assumed I was talking about a black person.  I think you
> > need to look into the mirror.  I guess everytime you hear 'welfare'
> > you think of a black person.
> 
> Yea, you go on telling yourself that.  I'll believe you used the name
> "Lashoniqwa" and didn't mean a black woman.  Honest, I will.

dude...haven't you heard, the latest eight-mile craze is naming
daughters "lashoniqwa" and "shawanda".  all the black girls are now
named "tammy" and "bambi".  he was obviously talking about po' white
folk.

hey who all around here is from cbus or cinty?

-sean (not deadly buda! i am but one of his minions)


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From mw-raves-return-34232-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 02:27:19 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

Ryan wrote:
> Why are you so upset at the Patriot and Rave
> Act....I thought you were for 'compromise'.  That is what this is, the
> politicians and club owners got together and made a compromise law that for
> the most part affects parties held in various locations...not subject to one
> venue (i.e.: a normal day to day operating business).

uh...at what point did "club owners" get together and have the RAVE Act
railroaded thru on the back of the Amber Alert bill?  you get points for
identifying a slippery slope argument, but i am skeptical of any
entertainment industry sponsorship of the RAVE Act.

keep in mind that not all things should be compromised upon.  for
instance...in the grand old debate regarding the actual and biblical
definitions of pi, any "compromise" only pulls definition away from
reality...ie pi != 3, pi = an irrational begining 3.14...just like any
"compromise" between throwing raves and not throwing raves is a move
towards not throwing raves, not a move towards Reducing American's
Vulnerability to Ecstacy, and any "compromise" between security and
civil rights is a move away from civil rights rather than a move towards
the daily vigilance we should practice in the first place--a sort of
vigilance that could have kept us out of trouble in the first place(s)
if we (collectively, and particularly here in the midworst *cough*
midwest) werent so focused on chowing pringles and watching the season
finale of friends.

a more direct way of saying this is that if you don't keep your punk ass
in line and help your friends keep their punk asses in line, somebody
will make a law telling you to, with the slippery slope means of
violence leading to the end of a crime-free society.

y'all are fun.  i like this forum already.

-sean


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From mw-raves-return-34233-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 02:46:02 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

:::::::::: Sure, of course not. One of the things this country was, at least 
in theory, based on was that what matters is what a man does, not who his 
father was. Now of course, that doesn't really happen, as Dubya's life 
proves, seeing as he seemed to coast through life using his father's name 
rather than his own effort. But at the very least an effort should be made 
to do the right
thing and not judge him. It does imply that Prescott Bush should be judged 
however.:::::::::::::::::::::

amen...

:::::::::::And to be fair, I never said that Shrub should be judged by that. 
I just mentioned it because it was another connection that Bush had with the 
Nazi's, that not only has he acted in similar ways to Hitler, but that his 
family had dealings with them too. Not that he had dealings with them or in 
truth had any real relation with the Third Reich.::::::::::::::

I honestly just dont see any similirarity between GW and Hitler.  I do not 
see the conflict in Iraq as being any way comparable to the invasion of 
Poland.

    :::::::::::Sure, so even after Hitler invaded Poland, put the 
persecution of Jews, Slavs, Roma, Socialists, and Homosexuals into high 
gear,  sterilized mental patients, and oh yeah, declared war on the U.S., 
there were no moral qualms in continuing his investment. While I'm certainly 
not saying that he was a Nazi, I have no way of knowing it, and in fact 
doubt it, I am saying that he definitely put profits before people. And his 
assets from UBC and IG Farben were seized in late 1942, if he had been 
willing to use his conscience, he would have had plenty of time to pull 
out.:::::::::::

I will totally agree with this...as soon as the Nazi party showed the rest 
of the world its heinous intent...any American businessman worth his salt 
should have pulled as far away as possible from Germany....

_________________________________________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34234-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 02:50:08 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] laugh at ryan's opinions thread

:::::::::: Something that really pisses me off is that about the modern left 
honestly is this thought that Israel is just some big evil, and the 
Palestinians are hopeless, and this is their only reaction to 
state-sponsored terrorism. Or that Palestinians have a right, but Israelis 
don't. Obviously that's bullshit. Call me utopian, but I'd say that there is 
a lot the Palestinians can do that doesn't involve killing innocent 
civilians (and of course same for the Israelis). Say, non-violent protest? I 
know that it would, especially at first, lead to a lot of deaths coming from 
Israeli forces, but then again, so is what's happening right now, and  at 
least this is more photogenic and is more likely to get the Israeli people 
to try to end the occupation.:::::::::::::

I totally agree with you...the thing is, one of these factions is going to 
have to strap on some cojones and be the better person, and just stop any 
retaliatory action....this may never happen....but it is what must be done 
to forestall any more violence....

I also cant understand the leftist policy hating Israel...it seems that 
simply because our government supports them, that is enough for many 
extremist liberals to consider Isreal the agressor...

::::::::::Though I am going to have to say that the egg came first. Some 
sort of "proto-chicken" laid the egg of the modern chicken. If you accept 
evolution then it makes the most sense. :-b :::::::::::

Hahahahaha....I would tend to agree....but what really happened is a 
cockroach somehow evolved into what we now call a chicken....Survival of the 
the Fittest man, and nothing is better prepared to adapt and survive than 
cockroaches....

_________________________________________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34235-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 02:51:39 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

Im in C=bus right now...yall should come out on July 5th....Zooluu Midwest 
2K3....10 headliners featuring AK1200, Diesalboy, Doughboy, and Kimball 
Collins....along with around 30 local acts....14 Hour party from Noon to 2 
am....its gonna be tizight....

_________________________________________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34236-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:00:18 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 10:45  PM, Rich G wrote:
>
:::::::::::And to be fair, I never said that Shrub should be judged by 
that. I just mentioned it because it was another connection that Bush 
had with the Nazi's, that not only has he acted in similar ways to 
Hitler, but that his family had dealings with them too. Not that he had 
dealings with them or in truth had any real relation with the Third 
Reich.::::::::::::::
>
> I honestly just dont see any similirarity between GW and Hitler.

Well, the article said it best, but to summarize a few points:

      *both were put in power with a minority of people supporting them
      *both took advantage of a terrorist act to push through their 
right-wing agenda
      *both used wars and foreign involvements to distract the people 
from their economic
        plight, corruption, and the total seizure of power by the wealthy
      *both called internal dissent "unpatriotic"
      *both set up offices of "homeland security"
      *and many more

> I do not see the conflict in Iraq as being any way comparable to the 
> invasion of Poland.

Well... it isn't quite, but they were both invasions that were illegal 
under international law, that were based on false pretenses to gain 
more resources and distract the populace from troubles at home (IMO, 
maybe Bush really did care enough about the Iraqi people to kill 7,000 
civilians and then not let them have their own elections and instead 
set up a colonial style system. Maybe that's just his way of saying 
that he cared).

-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34237-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:02:19 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] laugh at ryan's opinions thread

yep. i agree with everything you said. (especially the part about the 
cockroaches, they'll outlive us all!)

On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 10:50  PM, Rich G wrote:

> :::::::::: Something that really pisses me off is that about the 
> modern left honestly is this thought that Israel is just some big 
> evil, and the Palestinians are hopeless, and this is their only 
> reaction to state-sponsored terrorism. Or that Palestinians have a 
> right, but Israelis don't. Obviously that's bullshit. Call me utopian, 
> but I'd say that there is a lot the Palestinians can do that doesn't 
> involve killing innocent civilians (and of course same for the 
> Israelis). Say, non-violent protest? I know that it would, especially 
> at first, lead to a lot of deaths coming from Israeli forces, but then 
> again, so is what's happening right now, and  at least this is more 
> photogenic and is more likely to get the Israeli people to try to end 
> the occupation.:::::::::::::
>
> I totally agree with you...the thing is, one of these factions is 
> going to have to strap on some cojones and be the better person, and 
> just stop any retaliatory action....this may never happen....but it is 
> what must be done to forestall any more violence....
>
> I also cant understand the leftist policy hating Israel...it seems 
> that simply because our government supports them, that is enough for 
> many extremist liberals to consider Isreal the agressor...
>
> ::::::::::Though I am going to have to say that the egg came first. 
> Some sort of "proto-chicken" laid the egg of the modern chicken. If 
> you accept evolution then it makes the most sense. :-b :::::::::::
>
> Hahahahaha....I would tend to agree....but what really happened is a 
> cockroach somehow evolved into what we now call a chicken....Survival 
> of the the Fittest man, and nothing is better prepared to adapt and 
> survive than cockroaches....
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34238-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:10:16 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

well ryan, i was starting to think you were a nutcase, but you got a few
good points out here.  once a guy goes from the handout mentality to the
working class mentality, he really hates it when somebody wants to take
the money he earned and give it to some loser who cant even go to a
nightclub without starting a riot.

...and frankly, sorry to shatter everyone's crystal palace, there is a
racial dividing line for reasons much too complicated to delve into on a
rave list.  unfortunately, ryan might just have a fucking clue regarding
lazy welfare queens, of which denver has quite a few (i moved here from
the front range)...people who realize that if they have about 6 kids and
remain a single mother, they take in more than enough to live above the
poverty line and get a nice tv to boot.  great article in the denver
post last summer about welfare reform.  oh, and that "welfare to work"
program? it's run by lockheed martin (a defense contractor...im all
whisky tango foxtrot on that one, too), and the people who are in the
program hate it. it's run half-assed, and keeps getting funding because
it *sounds* like a nice idea to a bunch of middle class white people in
suits.  incidentally, the majority of "welfare to work" people aren't of
white middle class origin.  i may not be racist, but i am not blind
either--there are a lot of *black* lower class mothers who rarely get to
see their children because a *white* middle class suit thought busing
people 4 hours a day to work 8-10 hours for minimum wage was a good
idea...and you wonder why kids grow up all fucked up.  shawanda never
seeing her son because she's always working for the man is exactly the
same as buffy and biff spending all day building up the man and never
spending time with their son...both kids wind up mental.
 
> Didn't know you lived in the ghetto...oh, you don't?   Well I worked at a
> bank in the hood.  Trust me, these people are _all_ about getting as much
> for nothing as they can.  I had a few people tell me they are on disability,
> but that they use their kids info to get work.  That way they get two
> checks.  I had plenty of people bring their welfare cards into the branch
> demanding we give them _their_ money.

oh...damn...y'all middle class raised types didn't know that's a regular
thing? i moved to the big city from alaska...i grew up taught that all
people are equal, and somehow wound up with the idea that anyone below
the middle class and not white is a noble victim of society...boy did
that go down the tubes when i moved to the big city.  most of you live
in big cities, no?  do you miss this sort of thing happening?  noble
victims of society are very rare!  and they are the ones who are only on
welfare long enough to get themselves off welfare...oooo, there's
another rant there...

> Free childcare, free food, free healthcare, etc etc.  I have a hard time
> feeling sorry for these people.
>
> I have a right to _my_ money.  Instead, the socialist believe I work for the
> state and everything I own and make really just belongs to the state...but
> they just allow us to have it.

actually, they aren't socialists.  theyre democrats, and they also
sponsor rave-related legislation.  oooo, marriage of the right and left
wing nutcases!  here's another point that hits home if youre someone who
goes out and works a 9-5...if youre like most "skilled" types with a
9-5, youre paying off student loans and your own living expenses as well
as the living expenses for both shamiqwa and bambi and their respective
herds of rug rats.  i resent that...i worked my ass off for 4 years of
college to get where i am.  i do not feel an overwhelming moral need to
devote my wages to the welfare community...it isn't "their" money.  i do
not owe them forty acres or a mule.  at this point, they ought to be
thanking me and everyone else in my tax bracket for supporting their
fetus farms.
 
>  > Would you rather have those people living in the streets, stealing from
> you, killing > you, and making your world a generally shittier place to
> live, so you can save that > 4% or so from your taxes?
> 
> Killing me?  It's why we carry guns.  Fact is that when the riots start,
> there will be a whole lot of killing.  Let me tell you, these people won't
> magically become 'smart' and organize.  Instead they will have turf wars and
> just blow each other away.  It's why I live rural.

what he said..."they" dont generally kill middle and upper class types
unless those types stray in to the wrong neighborhood.  they kill each
other for the right to sell drugs and women to middle and upper class
types.  and yes, i will take that 4% back.  oh, damn, now all the 8miles
have to *work*...they might have to take our *loans* to get
*educations*...just like *me*...oh, the horror.

> Yea, the horror of asking someone to shut their legs, wear a condom, or get
> on the pill.  All I can say is that babies can be feed and cared for via
> welfare $$$.  HIV/AIDS can't be stopped no matter how much money you throw
> at it.  It will become a big factor in the next 10 years.  Especially since
> the US is becoming more of a whore nation where 'babies daddy' seems to be
> the norm across all races, classes, etc.

actually ryan, it's the suburban and rural "traditional" citizens that
clamor for outlawing abortions and preventing sexual education in
schools...which leads to stupidity and sexually transmitted diseases
(herds of children, for example).  money is thrown at abstinence
education, which is one of the dumbest things ive ever heard.  i frankly
wish all religious nutballs and abstinence advocators would practice
what they preach--the cycle of life would weed them out.  if money were
thrown at finding cures for stds and teaching kids responsible sexual
practices, maybe we'd make some headway.

> It's not going to 'move further out'.  Sad, but that is what is going to
> happen---that's when the bullets start flying.  The clash between the
> middle/upper middle class and the welfare class.  The middle-upper middle
> class work hard for their suburban homes, they won't let inner city trash
> with no morals destroy their homes.  I don't think they will join the
> throngs of crack heads with 4 kids (3 different dads) in attacking the rich
> and elite.  In fact, my money is that the middle class will take one look at
> the inner-city/section 8 types and choose to fight with the upper class.

damn right.  however, i dont agree that the "welfare classes" will rise
up...you need organization and cooperation for that sort of thing.  most
"welfare class" people do not understand this, hence they do not run the
country either.

> Until the underclass learn and practice basic morals, they are doomed.  You
> cannot just keep popping out bastard after bastard and live your life
> according to rap/hip-hop "fuck hoes, knock'em up, I can't stand my babies
> mama" music and expect to go anywhere in life.  Sad fact is _many_ people
> are stating to live a 'party' life of just living for fun.  This inner-city
> lifestyle has crossed over into suburban America.  We are doomed.

until the middle, upper, and rural classes learn that practicing basic
morals needs to take a back seat to a comprehensive education free from
the sways of religion, the "welfare class" will continue producing herds
of human larvae, ready and waiting to take a larger chunk out of someone
else's paycheck.  your head is halfway out of your ass, my friend...keep
pullin'...

-sean (views do not in any way relate to those of deadly systems, deadly
buda, etc. etc. etc.)


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From mw-raves-return-34239-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:11:48 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

i sense a libertarian.  not to be confused with a republican, a
democrat, a racist, or a nutcase militia member.  am i correct?

-sean

Ryan wrote:
> >     Actually, as a matter of fact, it was. It's called "by the people, for
> > the people".
> 
> Only if the law is constitutional.  Not only that, we don't even have an
> 'every vote counts' system.  We have an electoral college...the only system
> that means you can get less votes, but _still_ win the presidency.


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From mw-raves-return-34240-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:13:34 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Burgis" <burgisd@comcast.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


>
> Take Benton Harbor for instance, if the exact same chain of events had
> occurred (long history of police brutality, massive economic and race
> discrimination, then a man being killed, followed by a community
> meeting that was shut down because the populace was "too angry"
> followed by the people rising up and storming through the town while
> shouting "No justice, no peace") in say, Baghdad a year ago, or Tehran
> right now, it would be known as an uprising, not a riot. But because
> it's a protest against the American establishment it's considered a
> riot.

Valid point.  To me an uprising would be an actual attacking on the
establishment like burning down the police station.  A riot is more where
people are pissed and want an excuse to vent, but don't really take it out
on those who they are pissed off at.  In the Mich. case, people were burning
down buildings and really not even going after the cops.  I did hear they
opened fire on a fire truck.  I am sure the liberals would scream "How day
the fire service leave a black area on fire.  It must be racism in the fire
station!!!"


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From mw-raves-return-34241-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:20:47 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

Heh.


On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 11:18  PM, Ryan wrote:
>
> Valid point.  To me an uprising would be an actual attacking on the
> establishment like burning down the police station.  A riot is more 
> where
> people are pissed and want an excuse to vent, but don't really take it 
> out
> on those who they are pissed off at.  In the Mich. case, people were 
> burning
> down buildings and really not even going after the cops.  I did hear 
> they
> opened fire on a fire truck.  I am sure the liberals would scream "How 
> day
> the fire service leave a black area on fire.  It must be racism in the 
> fire
> station!!!"


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From mw-raves-return-34242-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:22:33 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

David Burgis wrote:
> And of course I was also thinking that
> it would be combined with a drive towards worldwide "true socialism",
> none of the state-capitalism like in the USSR. That would solve the 2nd
> problem, if it could work (which is of course the major problem,
> getting it to work).

LOL...i woulda cornholed yer argument if you hadn't included the
parenthetical comment ;)

-sean


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From mw-raves-return-34243-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:25:51 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] assault weapon ban

> Or, y'know, more civilian control over the police and the government.
> Just a thought...

prevented specifically to preclude frivolous lawsuits.  unfortunately
also a double-edged sword. want to make a difference? become a police
officer.  no, i'm not kidding at all, i'm deadly serious.

-sean


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From mw-raves-return-34244-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:27:54 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] assault weapon ban]


----- Original Message -----
From: "catnap" <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: "Ryan" <ryry317@pobox.com>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 8:03 PM
Subject: [Re: [mw] assault weapon ban]

>dude, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.  if kevlar armored
>perps come to your house to kill you, aren't you gonna need that assault
rifle
>no matter where you live?

No, I always keep the shotgun with slugs handy.  If I fire my Glock and they
don't go down...I am grabbing the Benelli.

> it is not normal for a regular person to need a 30 round
>magazine for a self-defense or hunting situation. that is the difference
>between military and non-military hardware.

How much training do you have shooting a weapon?  I have 6 years of
qualifications thus far.  It's _hard_ to shoot a gun.  It's not surprising
that when cops get in a shoot out, a few of the officers will swear they
fired 3 times and you look down and the slide is locked back.  For those who
don't know that much about guns, that means the 15 round mag is empty.  When
an innocent, law abiding person's life is on the line....I favor giving them
the best chance they have against an attacker.  Lucky for us, normal
capacity mags are still available for many rifles and their costs have come
down.  USGI 30 rounds for the AR-15: $16 each.  30 round AK mags: $6-$10
each.  HK-91 mags: $20 something each.  Stock up while you can.

>you're not fighting a war, and you're not about to fight a war, so you
don't
>need weapons of war.  sorry to fuck up your paranoid daydreams there,
Rambo.

Someone like you must have been the person to lead the Jews straight into
the camps.

>might i suggest some claymore mines for your front and back yards?  might
buy >you that extra few minutes you need to pull off some critical headshots
before you >get whacked by a sniper.  oh and of course, your heroic death
will then spark the >mother of all race wars.

I am not preparing for the SWAT team.  If a gun ban was enacted, besides
your hard on, there would be massive fire fights against SWAT teams.  Here
is a little fact for you:  Many SWAT teams do not get shot at.  You make it
so that every dynamic entry to take someone's gun ends up a firefight...you
can rest assured you won't have very many cops after the 3rd such raid.

>yeah, if we're debating firepower here, i would.

You don't know shit about guns then.  I would much rather take a .223 to my
arm than a .40 hollowpoint.  The .223 will go in and out and make two small
wounds.  As long as an artery isn't hit, you proboly make a 100% come back.
If your hit with a .40 hollowpoint at the same distance....the bullet is
likely to stay in the arm and move around increasing the chances of nerve
and artery damage.  Hence the promotion of Black Talons, Hydroshocks, etc
for handgun ammunition.

>come for your women and children it'll be a good thing you have that
>battle rifle ready to blow their asses to kingdom come.

Yea, how horrible of me to want to prevent some woman from being raped.  I
guess you see the raping and sexual assults in central park a few years ago
as 'boys being boys'

>nothin like a warm assault weapon to ease that white man's burden. ;)

You got that right.  Hello, if the welfare trash is armed with them (and
yes, they are) why not us?  You trying to give some preference to non-whites
or something?



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From mw-raves-return-34245-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:31:51 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

YYEEEAAAH.  now that's the mw-raves i'm talkin' 'bout...got a website,
ticket location, that sorta business?

-sean

Rich G wrote:
> 
> Im in C=bus right now...yall should come out on July 5th....Zooluu Midwest
> 2K3....10 headliners featuring AK1200, Diesalboy, Doughboy, and Kimball
> Collins....along with around 30 local acts....14 Hour party from Noon to 2
> am....its gonna be tizight....


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From mw-raves-return-34246-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:33:50 2003
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From: Jonathan Nelson <phossie@eds.org>
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Subject: [mw] where OT means on-topic


i've recently made an eight month move from sf to toledo by way of
vermont.  severe symptoms of d'n'b withdrawal persist.  recommendations?  
closer is better (detroit?) but anything helps.

-j


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From mw-raves-return-34247-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:41:36 2003
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Subject: [mw] OT: dnb "near" toledo

how far is cbus from toledo? weekly jungle, dnb, turntablism,
beatboxing, bboying and such, various venues, but it takes a bit of
looking.

-sean

Jonathan Nelson wrote:
> 
> i've recently made an eight month move from sf to toledo by way of
> vermont.  severe symptoms of d'n'b withdrawal persist.  recommendations?
> closer is better (detroit?) but anything helps.
> 
> -j


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From mw-raves-return-34248-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:49:38 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

::::::::::Well, the article said it best, but to summarize a few points:

         *both took advantage of a terrorist act to push through their 
right-wing agenda::::::::::::

You see, this is where our opinions differ.  I believe that Bush did a great 
job in responding to 9-11, I thought he showed remarkable restraint, and 
served our country well..

::::::::::::*both used wars and foreign involvements to distract the people 
from their economic
       plight, corruption, and the total seizure of power by the 
wealthy::::::::::

The rich have had most of the money in America for generations....Its called 
capitalism...I think the only way to change that is to change our entire 
economic system....If anyone can come up with a feasible plan to better 
spread the wealth I am all for it....

:::::::::*both called internal dissent "unpatriotic"
     *both set up offices of "homeland security"
     *and many more:::::::::::

Did bush transport all of the "dissenters" to concentration camps?  No.

  ::::::::::::::::  I do not see the conflict in Iraq as being any way 
comparable to the invasion of Poland.

Well... it isn't quite, but they were both invasions that were illegal under 
international law, that were based on false pretenses to gain more resources 
and distract the populace from troubles at home (IMO, maybe Bush really did 
care enough about the Iraqi people to kill 7,000 civilians and then not let 
them have their own elections and instead set up a colonial style system. 
Maybe that's just his way of saying that he cared).:::::::::::::::

This brings up to mind one of my main arguements in conversations like 
these.  Simply that all of us enjoy the right to protest, and to discuss our 
President in friendly and totally unfriendly terms.   The Iraqis were not 
allowed to do this.  So....if according to some things Ive read on this 
forum....yall would rather have kept the Iraqis under the rule of a dictator 
who didnt allow free speech, who jailed "dissenters" and tortured people for 
the sheer fun of it, than have us go in there and give them a chance for a 
better life?

This is what I dont understand.  The people that argue most vehemently 
against bush and the war in Iraq, seem not to realize that through this war, 
we gave the Iraqis the right to do something that we do everyday...protest, 
and foster intellectual disccussion on opinions that might not follow the 
"party line"  I would think that yall would want to give the Iraqis this 
freedom more than anything else...since you practice it so freely....


P.S.  I would just like to say thank you to everyone keeping this discussion 
from being a flame war....good and intellectual discussion goin on....

_________________________________________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34249-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:50:28 2003
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From: prophet V <drdoit2ya@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [mw] Israel or Islam?

Subject: "Islam is peace"? >By David Hunt

Is "political correctness" deliberate lying or
voluntary insanity? How do we explain the lie (with no
example to support it, and hundreds 
refuting it) that "Islam is peace"? Without violence,
by which it began, spread, and now maintains itself,
Islam would be an obscure cult, not a world 
religion.

Islam made "converts" with the sword from France to
China. With stunning 
swiftness and ferocity, Islam's insatiable sword
--"more rapid than the Roman, more lasting than the
Mongol [in] the most amazing feat in military 
history"1 --  compelled nations to submit to Allah.
The massacres were larger in sheer numbers than
Hitler's holocaust. Historian Will Durant 
calls Islam's conquest of India "probably the
bloodiest story in history."
Yet the politically correct lie persists that Islam
"is peace." After 
murdering Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics, the
PLO was invited to 
participate in the Olympics! For decades the
International Federation of the Red Cross has honored
Islam's Red Crescent but refused to recognize 
Israel's Magen David Adom. For speaking out against
this fraud, Bernadine Healy was forced to resign as
president of the American Red Cross.

One thing is certain: though "political correctness"
may deceive for a time, it will inevitably betray even
in this life those who employ it 

In the Wall Street Journal, Eliot Cohen of Johns
Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies said,
"an hour spent surfing the Web will 
give...the kind of insights [into Islam]...found
during World War II by reading Mein 
Kampf or the writings of Lenin, Stalin or Mao. Nobody
would like to think that a major world religion has a
deeply aggressive and dangerous strain in 
it...but uttering uncomfortable and unpleasant
truths...defines leadership."

Israel's Proclamation of Independence May 14, 1948
stated: "We extend our hand to all neighboring States
and their peoples in an offer of 
peace...and appeal to them to establish bonds of
cooperation and mutual help with the 
sovereign Jewish people settled in its own
land...placing our trust in 
the Almighty...."

That olive branch was trampled by the regular armies
of at least five Arab nations attacking Israeli
settlers, while Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of 
the Arab League declared, "This will be a war of
extermination...." The fact that to exterminate Israel
is required by Islam makes real peace 
in the Middle East impossible -- but political
correctness will not admit it. 
For "peace," however, Arab nations demanded that
Israel retreat to the tiny, indefensible territory
given to her by the UN, a small fraction 
of what the League of Nations had set aside in 1922 as
the Jewish homeland. If that principle were
universally adopted, aggressors could never lose 
by attacking their neighbors!

In the 1948-49 war, Jordan captured East Jerusalem and
the West Bank, while 
Egypt took the Gaza Strip, ending more than 3,000
years of continuous Jewish presence. The Jordanians
and Egyptians systematically destroyed 
all evidence of Jewish history, including villages and
synagogues, drove out all Jews and made the sale of
land to Jews a capital offense. 
"Occupied territories"? Yes, by Arabs!

These areas became nests for terrorist attacks against
Israel. 
Egyptian Foreign Minister Muhammad Salah al-Din
explained, "The Arab people...declare: We shall not be
satisfied except by the final 
obliteration of Israel...." Egyptian President Nasser
added, "...we demand vengeance, and vengeance is
Israel's death."

Incredibly, Israel kept trying to get along with her
enemies, hoping for "peace." Like nothing else, the
dream of Middle East peace breeds the 
self-deluding, politically correct desire not to
"offend" aggressors.

Israel has doggedly pursued peace along a path strewn
with the wreckage of 
hope betrayed. In September 1978, Egypt, Israel and
the U.S. signed the Camp David accords under which
Israel gave the Sinai back to Egypt. In fact, more
than 90 percent of the land Israel acquired in
self-defense against an enemy sworn to exterminate her
has been given back. She has offered to give more,
including a "Palestinian state," on the 
condition that her right to exist be recognized -- to
which Muslims, by Islamic law, cannot agree. Yet
Israel is blamed for failing to make peace!

The West was thrilled March 26, 1979 when President
Carter hosted the 
signing of a "peace treaty" by Israel's Menachem Begin
and Egypt's Anwar Sadat. Carter wanted to quote one
verse each from the Bible and the Qur'an 
about peace. There are some 400 such verses in the
Bible, but his speech writers could find only one in
the Qur'an.

Carter declared: "In the Koran, we read: 'But if the
enemy incline towards peace, do thou also incline
towards peace, and trust in God...' [Surah 
8:61]. So let us now lay aside war....We pray
God...that these dreams 
will come true."

Islam's "dream," however, is not what Carter and
Israel envisioned. The verse says "Allah," not God --
and Allah hates Jews! Surah 8 is titled 
"Spoils of War." Verse 65 says, "O Prophet! Exhort the
believers to fight...." Verse 67 says, "It is not for
any prophet to have captives until 
he hath made slaughter in the land." The only "peace"
offered is to those vanquished in jihad (holy war) who
surrender to Muslim warriors. 
"Peace" in Arabic comes from the word salam, which
means submission -- unlike the 
Hebrew shalom which means genuine peace among friends.

Neither Arafat nor any Arab leader has the authority
to abrogate Islamic 
law by signing an agreement allowing Jews to rule
territory which Islam once possessed. In A.D. 641
Muslims conquered what the Romans had renamed 
"Palestine" in A.D. 135. It cannot be relinquished,nor
can any other land 
once held by Islam, from France to China. Nor can any
non-Muslims rule over Muslims anywhere -- and that
includes the United States! This is a central doctrine
which every Muslim learns at the mosque.

Dividing all of the world into dar al-Islam (the house
of peace) and dar al-Harb (the house of war), Islam
requires unceasing jihad until the 
entire world submits to Allah. Ahmad Hasan az-Zayat,
modern Islamic authority, writes in Al-Azhar, "Holy
war is... a divine obligation. The Muslim's...religion
is a Qur'an and a sword...."

According to shari'a (Islamic law), there can never be
peace, only a temporary ceasefire, between the Muslim
and non-Muslim worlds. This fact is 
found in any number of texts such as War and Peace in
the Law of Islam by Professor Majid Khadduri, a Muslim
expert on Islamic law. As Bosnian 
Muslim leader Alija Izetbegovic recently said, "There
can be no peace or coexistence between the Islamic
faith and non-Islamic societies...." 
This is Islam! But political correctness will not
admit the unpleasant 
truth.

Lying to promote Islam is considered honorable. On
October 14, 1988, Arafat condemned all forms of
terrorism and recognized Israel -- on paper. 
The Madrid Peace Conference in October 1991 paved the
way for secret PLO-Israeli talks in Oslo. On September
13, 1993, Prime Minister Yitzak Rabin and Arafat
signed the Oslo "Declaration of Principles" and Israel
recognized Arafat and the PLO.

In Cairo on May 4, 1994, Arafat and Rabin signed the
"Jericho First" Peace Accord, implementing Oslo.
Shimon Peres exulted on Voice of Israel 
Radio, "Today we have ended the Israeli-Arab conflict
-- Utopia is coming!" He had 
forgotten the frequent calls for an end to Israel by
Arafat and other PLO leaders, such as this by Arafat's
deputy, Abu Iyad: "It is our right 
that we should have...an independent Palestinian
state...as a base from which to liberate Jaffa, Akko
and all of Palestine."2 Another aide had earlier 
said, "The struggle with the Zionist enemy is not a
struggle about Israel's borders, but about Israel's
existence."

Apologizing for Oslo, Arafat told Muslim audiences
that he was following the Prophet's example by
entering into a temporary ceasefire that 
would lead to Israel's destruction. In A.D. 728,
Muhammad's treaty of Hudaybiya -- a 10-year ceasefire
with the Quraish of Mecca -- set the legal 
precedent. Two years later, on a pretext, with an army
of 10,000 he took over Mecca with its Ka'aba. Such a
ceasefire is agreed to only when 
the Muslims are too weak to pursue conquest.

The "peace process" is an Islamic ploy by Arafat. Oslo
required him to remove from the PLO Charter the call
for Israel's annihilation. When 
he announced that the clause had been revoked, Rabin's
widow proclaimed 
in great joy, "The Palestinian National Council has
revoked the clauses in its covenant that called for
the destruction of Israel!" Rabin's successor, 
Prime Minister Peres, hailed this "most important
historical development in our region in 100 years." In
fact, it was a "hoax," as London's Daily 
Telegraph (5/2/96) declared. The clause had not and
has not been removed.

Arafat continues to call openly for Israel's
destruction. Such diatribes were put on a video by
Chairman of the House Foreign Relations 
Committee Ben Gilman, who offered to show them in a
press conference September 21, 1995. No one from the
press was interested! Even more disturbing, 
Israel's Ambassador to the U.S., Itamar Rabinovich,
pleaded with Gilman not to air the tapes 3 -- it might
hinder the "peace process"!

Netanyahu writes, "...my party and I were virtually
isolated in our warning that Arafat would not keep his
word....We were widely castigated as 
enemies of peace....Our argument was that handing Gaza
over to Arafat would immediately create a lush
terrorist haven...."4 Of course, he was right.

The Friday sermon (live on TV) at Gaza's Zayed bin
Sultan Al Nahyan mosque on October 14, 2000, included,
"Have no mercy on the Jews...kill 
them...and those Americans who...established Israel
here, in the beating heart of 
the Arab world." That very day two Israeli reservists
who made a wrong 
turn into Ramallah were beaten to death and torn apart
by a screaming mob 
near Arafat's headquarters, bringing cheers as the
nauseating savagery was 
shown live on Palestinian TV. The next day on TV, Dr.
Ahmad Abu-Halabia of 
the Islamic University of Gaza said, "The Jews...must
be butchered and killed....Have no mercy...no matter
where they are...kill them and 
those Americans who are like them." Need we give more
examples?

On June 8, 2001 Arafat declared another "ceasefire." A
few days later, Sheikh Ibrahim Mahdi declared on
Palestinian TV, "Allah willing...Israel 
will be erased...the United States will be
erased...Britain will be erased....Blessings to
whoever waged jihad for the sake of Allah. 
Blessings to whoever put a belt of explosives on his
body or his son's and plunged into the midst of the
Jews." This is Islam -- and the West had better 
awaken to that fact!

As the "peace process" continues, Palestinians murder
and torch the homes of fellow Arabs suspected of
cooperating with Israel. Muslim 
terrorists who kill Jews are honored by having streets
and holidays named after them.

The self-delusion has now reached new heights in the
"road map" for peace which Russia, the U.S., EU and UN
intend to force upon Israel and the 
"Palestinians."

This Quartet "calls upon Israel to take concrete steps
to support the emergence of a viable Palestinian
state...the Israeli occupation that 
began in 1967 must end...." President Bush has set the
abandonment of the use of 
terror forever and the establishment of a free
democratic society as a condition for a Palestinian
state. Sham "Palestinian elections" have 
deceived the world before.

Arafat has never kept one provision of Oslo, Wye,
etc.! Why would he honor an accord the Quartet gets
him to sign? The afternoon of the historic 
handshake with Yitzak Rabin on the White House lawn,
Arafat's name appeared near the top in a list of
"world terrorists released by a congressional 
committee."5 He is one of the most evil mass murderers
in history. Yet he was given the Nobel Prize for
Peace, and Clinton and Gore received him 
as a world statesman in the White House.

Arafat comes from a long line of devout Muslims and
does everything in 
the name of Allah. Therefore, no matter what "peace"
agreements he signs, 
he must seek the destruction of Israel (a state which
no Arab map even admits 
exists) as commanded by Allah through Muhammad. The
same holds for all 
true Muslims, from Chechnya to California!
Too few Christian leaders have the courage to speak
the truth as did Jerry 
Falwell on 60 Minutes: that Muhammad was a terrorist,
and, as Franklin Graham has said, that Islam is "very
evil and wicked." (Unfortunately 
each backed down later.) Too many church leaders
practice political correctness, 
though Islam is as anti-Christian as it could be. It
denies Christ's deity, 
His death for our sins on the cross and His
resurrection -- and has persecuted and killed millions
of Christians throughout its history.

Yet Billy Graham insists, "Islam is
misunderstood....Muhammad had a great 
respect for Jesus, called Jesus the greatest of the
prophets except himself. I think we're closer to Islam
than we really think we are...." 
Criticizing Falwell 
and Franklin Graham for speaking the truth,
Christianity Today declared, 
"Islam would not have become the second largest world
religion if it were...as thoroughly evil as these
comments suggest."

Robert Schuller has called Islam "Christian." He
recently basked in 
praise at a Villa Park, Illinois mosque where he
declared that he had come to 
realize that "asking people to change their faith was
utterly ridiculous." 
Coming to the defense of history's most cruel and
violent religion, 
Schuller insists:

This is a time to guard against attacking
religion....It has been 
my honor to become acquainted with the power leaders
of positive Islam. And there is and has been a strong
anti-Islam propaganda loose in this 
world. 6

"Anti-Islam propaganda"? 
No one could give Islam a worse name than Muhammad and
the Qur'an have 
done from the beginning. Yet Colin Powell, echoing
President Bush, insisted, "We 
must leave Islam out of this. It is a peaceful
religion."

Prior to September 11, many warnings went unheeded,
such as those from a 1998 blue-ribbon National
Commission on terrorism. Today we are 
repeating the same mistake by refusing to take Islam
seriously. And even the church 
is neglecting the largest mission field in the world,
either as "too dangerous," or under the illusion that
Allah is the God of the Bible and 
that Muslims are "closer to us than we realize." 
>TBC


__________________________________
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

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From mw-raves-return-34250-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:51:46 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

::::::::::And of course I was also thinking that
>it would be combined with a drive towards worldwide "true socialism",
>none of the state-capitalism like in the USSR. That would solve the 2nd
>problem, if it could work (which is of course the major problem,
>getting it to work).

LOL...i woulda cornholed yer argument if you hadn't included the
parenthetical comment ;)::::::::::

But true socialism will never work in our modernistic society.  True 
socialism is a utopian concept that will always get shot down by humanities 
foibles....

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Subject: [mw] ZooLu Midwest 2k3 in Columbus....

::::::::::YYEEEAAAH.  now that's the mw-raves i'm talkin' 'bout...got a 
website,
ticket location, that sorta business?

-sean::::::::::::

Hell yeah negro....this is gonna be the phattest, closest thing to a rave 
ive seen in columbus since i moved here two years ago... The venue is 
phat...gonna be five rooms, outdoor and inddor, capacity five thousand 
people....they have three thousand presale tickets for twenty 
five......heres the url....

You can buy tickets online....or somewhere in c-bus....its the July 5th 
party....Zooluu Midwest 2K3

http://ritualexperience.com/events.html

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From mw-raves-return-34252-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 03:57:38 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

> But true socialism will never work in our modernistic society.  True
> socialism is a utopian concept that will always get shot down by humanities
> foibles....

agreed mang...but "pure" socialism is a great topic of study, as it
parallels or is a subset of cooperation theory (dunno which exactly). 
cooperation generally breaks down among very large groups, unless the
group has a single unifying idea like religion to keep them pointed in
the same direction.

-sean


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From mw-raves-return-34253-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 04:01:06 2003
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Subject: [mw] Re: ZooLu Midwest 2k3 in Columbus....

sa-weet...factory's a really nice venue.  saw qbert there a while back,
with this dude before the show beatboxing like no other...never mind
qbert (and his !#$% brother/cousin/whatever...gaaah! get *off* the
mic!), i coulda gone for a few more hours of that guy rocking the mic
with his bro on deck, if his voice could keep it up.  most amazing show
i've been to in years.

-sean

Rich G wrote:
> Hell yeah negro....this is gonna be the phattest, closest thing to a rave
> ive seen in columbus since i moved here two years ago... The venue is
> phat...gonna be five rooms, outdoor and inddor, capacity five thousand
> people....they have three thousand presale tickets for twenty
> five......heres the url....
> 
> You can buy tickets online....or somewhere in c-bus....its the July 5th
> party....Zooluu Midwest 2K3
> 
> http://ritualexperience.com/events.html


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From mw-raves-return-34254-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 04:03:19 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] Re: ZooLu Midwest 2k3 in Columbus....

I saw DJ micro there, and Christopher Lawrence...ten bucks cover for each 
show...Micro was sick, played the most ill live set I have ever heard...and 
ive been to a lot of parties....was about three hours of his best 
shit....lawrence sucked ass...ive heard him live before and he was a lot 
better...but i love the venue....

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From mw-raves-return-34255-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 04:10:19 2003
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From: Jonathan Nelson <phossie@eds.org>
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To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: [mw] OT: dnb "near" toledo


not too far.  :)

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, webmaster@deadlysystems.com wrote:

> how far is cbus from toledo? weekly jungle, dnb, turntablism,
> beatboxing, bboying and such, various venues, but it takes a bit of
> looking.
> 
> -sean
> 
> Jonathan Nelson wrote:
> > 
> > i've recently made an eight month move from sf to toledo by way of
> > vermont.  severe symptoms of d'n'b withdrawal persist.  recommendations?
> > closer is better (detroit?) but anything helps.
> > 
> > -j
> 
> 
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From mw-raves-return-34256-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 05:11:21 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 11:51  PM, Rich G wrote:

> But true socialism will never work in our modernistic society.  True 
> socialism is a utopian concept that will always get shot down by 
> humanities foibles....

2 things:

First off, I agree, true socialism can't work in our modernistic 
society. That's why we have to fundamentally change society for it to 
even have a chance of working.

And secondly, not that I necessarily disagree with you, but back in the 
1700s, and to some measure in the 1800s, westerners thought that 
slavery was just part of humanity, and some people just deserved to 
have nothing. Now we think of it in a completely different way. Who 
knows? Maybe in 200 years people will think that the idea of total 
selfishness is outdated (though again, I seriously doubt that'll happen 
in 200 years).

-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34257-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 05:11:23 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

Well first off, I want to say that I  don't think that Bush is a little 
Hitler, or anything like that, he's not. He's not a fascist, he's not 
all those things, but I do believe that in some ways he has reacted in 
similar ways to how Hitler reacted.

On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 11:49  PM, Rich G wrote:
> You see, this is where our opinions differ.  I believe that Bush did a 
> great job in responding to 9-11, I thought he showed remarkable 
> restraint, and served our country well..

I dunno, I just think that the mass detentions of Arabs, and the 
bombing of Afghanistan was going over the top. And, well, I really 
don't like the Patriot Act.

> ::::::::::::*both used wars and foreign involvements to distract the 
> people from their economic
>       plight, corruption, and the total seizure of power by the 
> wealthy::::::::::
>
> The rich have had most of the money in America for generations....Its 
> called capitalism...I think the only way to change that is to change 
> our entire economic system....If anyone can come up with a feasible 
> plan to better spread the wealth I am all for it....

Of course, of course. It's just it seems like he's been upping the 
ante, with the tax cuts and further financing of corporations. I 
usually say that I'm either a Utopian Marxist or a Communist Anarchist 
(and no, that's not necessarily an oxymoron, read some Burckman) in 
that I'm against Capitalism, and believe that ultimately people can 
live without some form of constant authority, but not immediately, 
concepts are just too ingrained within peoples minds for now. But of 
course because I say that, I can also avoid joining some group of 
Maoist thugs or Trotskyites who have specific plans to make a better 
society that have either failed, or not stopped totalitarian groups to 
take over.


> :::::::::*both called internal dissent "unpatriotic"
>     *both set up offices of "homeland security"
>     *and many more:::::::::::
>
> Did bush transport all of the "dissenters" to concentration camps?  No.

No, and as I said before, I don't think Bush is a new Hitler, or 
anything like that, I just think that some (emphasis on the word some) 
of his tactics have been similar due to accidents of history. But also 
I'd say that if Gore had been in office when 9-11 happened, he would 
have almost certainly done many if not all of the same things that Bush 
did that I have problems with.


>  ::::::::::::::::  I do not see the conflict in Iraq as being any way 
> comparable to the invasion of Poland.
>
> Well... it isn't quite, but they were both invasions that were illegal 
> under international law, that were based on false pretenses to gain 
> more resources and distract the populace from troubles at home (IMO, 
> maybe Bush really did care enough about the Iraqi people to kill 7,000 
> civilians and then not let them have their own elections and instead 
> set up a colonial style system. Maybe that's just his way of saying 
> that he cared).:::::::::::::::
>
> This brings up to mind one of my main arguements in conversations like 
> these.  Simply that all of us enjoy the right to protest, and to 
> discuss our President in friendly and totally unfriendly terms.   The 
> Iraqis were not allowed to do this.  So....if according to some things 
> Ive read on this forum....yall would rather have kept the Iraqis under 
> the rule of a dictator who didnt allow free speech, who jailed 
> "dissenters" and tortured people for the sheer fun of it, than have us 
> go in there and give them a chance for a better life?
>
> This is what I dont understand.  The people that argue most vehemently 
> against bush and the war in Iraq, seem not to realize that through 
> this war, we gave the Iraqis the right to do something that we do 
> everyday...protest, and foster intellectual disccussion on opinions 
> that might not follow the "party line"  I would think that yall would 
> want to give the Iraqis this freedom more than anything else...since 
> you practice it so freely....

Well I'm happy that the Iraqis no longer have that dictator in power, I 
don't think anyone in the American or European peace movement would say 
that they supported Hussein. However I just see it as replacing one 
dictator with another, stronger one. I mean, the Iraqis still don't 
have a say in how the country is run, and the way things are going, 
probably won't. Not to mention already some papers have been censored 
for "disturbing the peace". And the fact is that most of the former 
members of Hussein's regime are still doing what they were doing a year 
ago. The majority of the Iraqi born security forces used to work for 
the Iraqi government, and same for most of the civil servants too. I 
really don't see how this was worth thousands of Iraqi lives.

And I always thought it was rather odd, most of the pro-war people that 
were so worried about the freedom of the Iraqis in the same breath 
blasted the Dixie Chicks, or Michael Moore, or the 15 million 
demonstrators on February 15th for not being patriotic enough, or not 
supporting the president. A little odd...

-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34258-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 05:17:32 2003
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From: David Burgis <burgisd@comcast.net>
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


On Tuesday, June 24, 2003, at 03:14  AM, webmaster@deadlysystems.com 
wrote:

>> But true socialism will never work in our modernistic society.  True
>> socialism is a utopian concept that will always get shot down by 
>> humanities
>> foibles....
>
> agreed mang...but "pure" socialism is a great topic of study, as it
> parallels or is a subset of cooperation theory (dunno which exactly).
> cooperation generally breaks down among very large groups, unless the
> group has a single unifying idea like religion to keep them pointed in
> the same direction.

Or, one might say, keep the revolutionary spirit alive? I would make 
the point that the biggest problem with the French, Russian and Cuban 
revolutions is that after the revolutionaries took power, they lost 
their drive and became the status quo, thereby failing in their 
ultimate goals. IF there could be some way to keep the revolutionary 
drive going, then something good might come of it.

  I'd be interested in discussing a utopian society with you at some 
point...

-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34259-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 05:22:49 2003
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:22:55 -0400
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Subject: Re: [mw] Israel or Islam?

Is it me, or was that really, really racist? Must just be me.

Oh, and I probably shouldn't mention the Crusades, eh? Or the old 
testaments habit of having prophets demanding the  slaughter of anyone 
who didn't fully follow the Jewish faith? Pretty much no matter which 
religion, you're gonna find some insanely violent crazies (except 
possibly Buddhism, though I wouldn't be too surprised to hear that they 
too have some writing that calls for the extermination of all who 
refuse to try to find the way).

The Islamic faith  doesn't mean war anymore than the Christian faith 
does. Both the New Testament and the Q'uran talk of love and kindness. 
In fact, back in the middle ages Islam was considered the most tolerant 
religion in the west, as it considered Jews and Christians worshippers 
of the same god, just in different ways. That talk of searching for a 
passage that mentioned peace almost certainly didn't bother to search 
for any passage of love or compassion or tolerance.

----------------------
Dave

"You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a 
reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating 
the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for 
independence."
-Charles Austin Beard 


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From mw-raves-return-34260-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 05:27:59 2003
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:27:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Casey <partykidzproductions@yahoo.com>
To: prophet V <drdoit2ya@yahoo.com>, MW Raves <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] Israel or Islam?

Stevie?

--- prophet V <drdoit2ya@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Subject: "Islam is peace"? >By David Hunt
> 
> Is "political correctness" deliberate lying or
> voluntary insanity? How do we explain the lie (with
> no
> example to support it, and hundreds 
> refuting it) that "Islam is peace"? Without
> violence,
> by which it began, spread, and now maintains itself,
> Islam would be an obscure cult, not a world 
> religion.
> 
> Islam made "converts" with the sword from France to
> China. With stunning 
> swiftness and ferocity, Islam's insatiable sword
> --"more rapid than the Roman, more lasting than the
> Mongol [in] the most amazing feat in military 
> history"1 --  compelled nations to submit to Allah.
> The massacres were larger in sheer numbers than
> Hitler's holocaust. Historian Will Durant 
> calls Islam's conquest of India "probably the
> bloodiest story in history."
> Yet the politically correct lie persists that Islam
> "is peace." After 
> murdering Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics,
> the
> PLO was invited to 
> participate in the Olympics! For decades the
> International Federation of the Red Cross has
> honored
> Islam's Red Crescent but refused to recognize 
> Israel's Magen David Adom. For speaking out against
> this fraud, Bernadine Healy was forced to resign as
> president of the American Red Cross.
> 
> One thing is certain: though "political correctness"
> may deceive for a time, it will inevitably betray
> even
> in this life those who employ it 
> 
> In the Wall Street Journal, Eliot Cohen of Johns
> Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies
> said,
> "an hour spent surfing the Web will 
> give...the kind of insights [into Islam]...found
> during World War II by reading Mein 
> Kampf or the writings of Lenin, Stalin or Mao.
> Nobody
> would like to think that a major world religion has
> a
> deeply aggressive and dangerous strain in 
> it...but uttering uncomfortable and unpleasant
> truths...defines leadership."
> 
> Israel's Proclamation of Independence May 14, 1948
> stated: "We extend our hand to all neighboring
> States
> and their peoples in an offer of 
> peace...and appeal to them to establish bonds of
> cooperation and mutual help with the 
> sovereign Jewish people settled in its own
> land...placing our trust in 
> the Almighty...."
> 
> That olive branch was trampled by the regular armies
> of at least five Arab nations attacking Israeli
> settlers, while Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of 
> the Arab League declared, "This will be a war of
> extermination...." The fact that to exterminate
> Israel
> is required by Islam makes real peace 
> in the Middle East impossible -- but political
> correctness will not admit it. 
> For "peace," however, Arab nations demanded that
> Israel retreat to the tiny, indefensible territory
> given to her by the UN, a small fraction 
> of what the League of Nations had set aside in 1922
> as
> the Jewish homeland. If that principle were
> universally adopted, aggressors could never lose 
> by attacking their neighbors!
> 
> In the 1948-49 war, Jordan captured East Jerusalem
> and
> the West Bank, while 
> Egypt took the Gaza Strip, ending more than 3,000
> years of continuous Jewish presence. The Jordanians
> and Egyptians systematically destroyed 
> all evidence of Jewish history, including villages
> and
> synagogues, drove out all Jews and made the sale of
> land to Jews a capital offense. 
> "Occupied territories"? Yes, by Arabs!
> 
> These areas became nests for terrorist attacks
> against
> Israel. 
> Egyptian Foreign Minister Muhammad Salah al-Din
> explained, "The Arab people...declare: We shall not
> be
> satisfied except by the final 
> obliteration of Israel...." Egyptian President
> Nasser
> added, "...we demand vengeance, and vengeance is
> Israel's death."
> 
> Incredibly, Israel kept trying to get along with her
> enemies, hoping for "peace." Like nothing else, the
> dream of Middle East peace breeds the 
> self-deluding, politically correct desire not to
> "offend" aggressors.
> 
> Israel has doggedly pursued peace along a path
> strewn
> with the wreckage of 
> hope betrayed. In September 1978, Egypt, Israel and
> the U.S. signed the Camp David accords under which
> Israel gave the Sinai back to Egypt. In fact, more
> than 90 percent of the land Israel acquired in
> self-defense against an enemy sworn to exterminate
> her
> has been given back. She has offered to give more,
> including a "Palestinian state," on the 
> condition that her right to exist be recognized --
> to
> which Muslims, by Islamic law, cannot agree. Yet
> Israel is blamed for failing to make peace!
> 
> The West was thrilled March 26, 1979 when President
> Carter hosted the 
> signing of a "peace treaty" by Israel's Menachem
> Begin
> and Egypt's Anwar Sadat. Carter wanted to quote one
> verse each from the Bible and the Qur'an 
> about peace. There are some 400 such verses in the
> Bible, but his speech writers could find only one in
> the Qur'an.
> 
> Carter declared: "In the Koran, we read: 'But if the
> enemy incline towards peace, do thou also incline
> towards peace, and trust in God...' [Surah 
> 8:61]. So let us now lay aside war....We pray
> God...that these dreams 
> will come true."
> 
> Islam's "dream," however, is not what Carter and
> Israel envisioned. The verse says "Allah," not God
> --
> and Allah hates Jews! Surah 8 is titled 
> "Spoils of War." Verse 65 says, "O Prophet! Exhort
> the
> believers to fight...." Verse 67 says, "It is not
> for
> any prophet to have captives until 
> he hath made slaughter in the land." The only
> "peace"
> offered is to those vanquished in jihad (holy war)
> who
> surrender to Muslim warriors. 
> "Peace" in Arabic comes from the word salam, which
> means submission -- unlike the 
> Hebrew shalom which means genuine peace among
> friends.
> 
> Neither Arafat nor any Arab leader has the authority
> to abrogate Islamic 
> law by signing an agreement allowing Jews to rule
> territory which Islam once possessed. In A.D. 641
> Muslims conquered what the Romans had renamed 
> "Palestine" in A.D. 135. It cannot be
> relinquished,nor
> can any other land 
> once held by Islam, from France to China. Nor can
> any
> non-Muslims rule over Muslims anywhere -- and that
> includes the United States! This is a central
> doctrine
> which every Muslim learns at the mosque.
> 
> Dividing all of the world into dar al-Islam (the
> house
> of peace) and dar al-Harb (the house of war), Islam
> requires unceasing jihad until the 
> entire world submits to Allah. Ahmad Hasan az-Zayat,
> modern Islamic authority, writes in Al-Azhar, "Holy
> war is... a divine obligation. The
> Muslim's...religion
> is a Qur'an and a sword...."
> 
> According to shari'a (Islamic law), there can never
> be
> peace, only a temporary ceasefire, between the
> Muslim
> and non-Muslim worlds. This fact is 
> found in any number of texts such as War and Peace
> in
> the Law of Islam by Professor Majid Khadduri, a
> Muslim
> expert on Islamic law. As Bosnian 
> Muslim leader Alija Izetbegovic recently said,
> "There
> can be no peace or coexistence between the Islamic
> faith and non-Islamic societies...." 
> This is Islam! But political correctness will not
> admit the unpleasant 
> truth.
> 
> Lying to promote Islam is considered honorable. On
> October 14, 1988, Arafat condemned all forms of
> terrorism and recognized Israel -- on paper. 
> The Madrid Peace Conference in October 1991 paved
> the
> way for secret PLO-Israeli talks in Oslo. On
> September
> 13, 1993, Prime Minister Yitzak Rabin and Arafat
> signed the Oslo "Declaration of Principles" and
> Israel
> recognized Arafat and the PLO.
> 
> In Cairo on May 4, 1994, Arafat and Rabin signed the
> "Jericho First" Peace Accord, implementing Oslo.
> Shimon Peres exulted on Voice of Israel 
> Radio, "Today we have ended the Israeli-Arab
> conflict
> -- Utopia is coming!" He had 
> forgotten the frequent calls for an end to Israel by
> Arafat and other PLO leaders, such as this by
> Arafat's
> deputy, Abu Iyad: "It is our right 
> that we should have...an independent Palestinian
> state...as a base from which to liberate Jaffa, Akko
> and all of Palestine."2 Another aide had earlier 
> said, "The struggle with the Zionist enemy is not a
> struggle about Israel's borders, but about Israel's
> existence."
> 
> Apologizing for Oslo, Arafat told Muslim audiences
> that he was following the Prophet's example by
> entering into a temporary ceasefire that 
> would lead to Israel's destruction. In A.D. 728,
> Muhammad's treaty of Hudaybiya -- a 10-year
> ceasefire
> with the Quraish of Mecca -- set the legal 
> precedent. Two years later, on a pretext, with an
> army
> of 10,000 he took over Mecca with its Ka'aba. Such a
> ceasefire is agreed to only when 
> the Muslims are too weak to pursue conquest.
> 
> The "peace process" is an Islamic ploy by Arafat.
> Oslo
> required him to remove from the PLO Charter the call
> for Israel's annihilation. When 
> he announced that the clause had been revoked,
> Rabin's
> widow proclaimed 
> in great joy, "The Palestinian National Council has
> revoked the clauses in its covenant that called for
> the destruction of Israel!" Rabin's successor, 
> Prime Minister Peres, hailed this "most important
> historical development in our region in 100 years."
> In
> fact, it was a "hoax," as London's Daily 
> Telegraph (5/2/96) declared. The clause had not and
> has not been removed.
> 
> Arafat continues to call openly for Israel's
> destruction. Such diatribes were put on a video by
> Chairman of the House Foreign Relations 
> Committee Ben Gilman, who offered to show them in a
> press conference September 21, 1995. No one from the
> press was interested! Even more disturbing, 
> Israel's Ambassador to the U.S., Itamar Rabinovich,
> pleaded with Gilman not to air the tapes 3 -- it
> might
> hinder the "peace process"!
> 
> Netanyahu writes, "...my party and I were virtually
> isolated in our warning that Arafat would not keep
> his
> word....We were widely castigated as 
> enemies of peace....Our argument was that handing
> Gaza
> over to Arafat would immediately create a lush
> terrorist haven...."4 Of course, he was right.
> 
> The Friday sermon (live on TV) at Gaza's Zayed bin
> Sultan Al Nahyan mosque on October 14, 2000,
> included,
> "Have no mercy on the Jews...kill 
> them...and those Americans who...established Israel
> here, in the beating heart of 
> the Arab world." That very day two Israeli
> reservists
> who made a wrong 
> turn into Ramallah were beaten to death and torn
> apart
> by a screaming mob 
> near Arafat's headquarters, bringing cheers as the
> nauseating savagery was 
> shown live on Palestinian TV. The next day on TV,
> Dr.
> Ahmad Abu-Halabia of 
> the Islamic University of Gaza said, "The
> Jews...must
> be butchered and killed....Have no mercy...no matter
> where they are...kill them and 
> those Americans who are like them." Need we give
> more
> examples?
> 
> On June 8, 2001 Arafat declared another "ceasefire."
> A
> few days later, Sheikh Ibrahim Mahdi declared on
> Palestinian TV, "Allah willing...Israel 
> will be erased...the United States will be
> erased...Britain will be erased....Blessings to
> whoever waged jihad for the sake of Allah. 
> Blessings to whoever put a belt of explosives on his
> body or his son's and plunged into the midst of the
> Jews." This is Islam -- and the West had better 
> awaken to that fact!
> 
> As the "peace process" continues, Palestinians
> murder
> and torch the homes of fellow Arabs suspected of
> cooperating with Israel. Muslim 
> terrorists who kill Jews are honored by having
> streets
> and holidays named after them.
> 
> The self-delusion has now reached new heights in the
> "road map" for peace which Russia, the U.S., EU and
> UN
> intend to force upon Israel and the 
> "Palestinians."
> 
> This Quartet "calls upon Israel to take concrete
> steps
> to support the emergence of a viable Palestinian
> state...the Israeli occupation that 
> began in 1967 must end...." President Bush has set
> the
> abandonment of the use of 
> terror forever and the establishment of a free
> democratic society as a condition for a Palestinian
> state. Sham "Palestinian elections" have 
> deceived the world before.
> 
> Arafat has never kept one provision of Oslo, Wye,
> etc.! Why would he honor an accord the Quartet gets
> him to sign? The afternoon of the historic 
> handshake with Yitzak Rabin on the White House lawn,
> Arafat's name appeared near the top in a list of
> "world terrorists released by a congressional 
> committee."5 He is one of the most evil mass
> murderers
> in history. Yet he was given the Nobel Prize for
> Peace, and Clinton and Gore received him 
> as a world statesman in the White House.
> 
> Arafat comes from a long line of devout Muslims and
> does everything in 
> the name of Allah. Therefore, no matter what "peace"
> agreements he signs, 
> he must seek the destruction of Israel (a state
> which
> no Arab map even admits 
> exists) as commanded by Allah through Muhammad. The
> same holds for all 
> true Muslims, from Chechnya to California!
> Too few Christian leaders have the courage to speak
> the truth as did Jerry 
> Falwell on 60 Minutes: that Muhammad was a
> terrorist,
> and, as Franklin Graham has said, that Islam is
> "very
> evil and wicked." (Unfortunately 
> each backed down later.) Too many church leaders
> practice political correctness, 
> though Islam is as anti-Christian as it could be. It
> denies Christ's deity, 
> His death for our sins on the cross and His
> resurrection -- and has persecuted and killed
> millions
> of Christians throughout its history.
> 
> Yet Billy Graham insists, "Islam is
> misunderstood....Muhammad had a great 
> respect for Jesus, called Jesus the greatest of the
> prophets except himself. I think we're closer to
> Islam
> than we really think we are...." 
> Criticizing Falwell 
> and Franklin Graham for speaking the truth,
> Christianity Today declared, 
> "Islam would not have become the second largest
> world
> religion if it were...as thoroughly evil as these
> comments suggest."
> 
> Robert Schuller has called Islam "Christian." He
> recently basked in 
> praise at a Villa Park, Illinois mosque where he
> declared that he had come to 
> realize that "asking people to change their faith
> was
> utterly ridiculous." 
> Coming to the defense of history's most cruel and
> violent religion, 
> Schuller insists:
> 
> This is a time to guard against attacking
> religion....It has been 
> my honor to become acquainted with the power leaders
> of positive Islam. And there is and has been a
> strong
> anti-Islam propaganda loose in this 
> world. 6
> 
> "Anti-Islam propaganda"? 
> No one could give Islam a worse name than Muhammad
> and
> the Qur'an have 
> done from the beginning. Yet Colin Powell, echoing
> President Bush, insisted, "We 
> must leave Islam out of this. It is a peaceful
> religion."
> 
> Prior to September 11, many warnings went unheeded,
> such as those from a 1998 blue-ribbon National
> Commission on terrorism. Today we are 
> repeating the same mistake by refusing to take Islam
> seriously. And even the church 
> is neglecting the largest mission field in the
> world,
> either as "too dangerous," or under the illusion
> that
> Allah is the God of the Bible and 
> that Muslims are "closer to us than we realize." 
> >TBC
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> 
>
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From mw-raves-return-34261-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 15:20:46 2003
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:20:37 -0400
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Subject: [mw] The real Columbus Underground this week 

wow.  mw-raves has come a long way (downhill)... if you guys think some
frickin club-based commercial blowout is the hottest thing goin on around=

here... let me be the first to introduce you to the real columbus
underground:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Headroom Digital & Residual Recordings present: =


PENETRATE =

Friday, June 27th 2003 =


feat: =

 =

Daz-I-Kue (Bugz in the Attic->Bitasweet->MAW->People->Laws of Motion) =

London, UK =

A founding member of the infamous and influential Bugz in the Attic
collective, Daz-I-Kue has shaped and defined the sound known as Broken Be=
at.
As the main recording and mix engineer for all Bugz in the Attic producti=
ons
and at their BitaSuite recording studio his ear and skills determine the
outcome of all Bugz in the Attic productions. He is also a highly regarde=
d
producer, contributing heavily to all the Bugz in the Attic projects incl=
uding
the amazing Afronaught and Agent K LP=E2=80=99s while also putting out hi=
s own
productions and producing other acclaimed acts. Producing tracks as Bugz =
in
the Attic as well as under various other guises such as The Sinclair Proj=
ect,
BB Boogie, Blak Label Blend, Da Ends, Misa Negra, and Ladbroke Groovers t=
o
name just a few, Daz-I-Kue has earned his place among the upper echelons =
of
electronic music. =


In addition to his own production work, Daz-I-Kue is an in-demand remix
artist. While he has done remixes for fellow Bugz in the Attic members,
Daz-I-Kue=E2=80=99s reputation has given him the opportunity to remix oth=
er artists
as well including the well known German group Jazzanova, Fela for the =E2=
=80=9CRed
Hot and Riot=E2=80=9D Fela tribute LP, 4Hero, Vikter Duplaix, Delano Smit=
h, Zero 7,
and Gaelle on the massive Naked Music imprint. Most recently, he has just=

finished a remix of Macy Gray=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CWhen I See You=E2=80=9D =
that is set for release
by Sony Music. Between all of his studio work, Daz-I-Kue manages to find =
time
to maintain a healthy DJ career as well with recent appearances in Berlin=
,
Prague, Edinburgh, Sheffield, and at the legendary Co-Op night in London.=
 We
are pleased to bring Daz-I-Kue to Penetrate for his debut Midwest appeara=
nce.


w/ support from Penetrate residents: =

Titonton Duvante (Residual->Jazzanova Compost->Bitasweet->2000 Black->Vis=
ions)

Douglas Black (Headroom Digital->Proceed) =


Penetrate takes place @ The Standard Lounge in the legendary Red Zone
nightclub located at: =

303 S. Front St. =

Columbus, OH =

10:30pm->2:30am =

$5 b4 midnight =

18+

----------------------------------------------------------------

Residual Recordings / Headroom Digital + Seven present

 - - - PROCEED - - -

 Monday, June 30th @ 5:01 Jazz Bar

Featuring:

MR. PROJECTILE
Toytronic / Topsource / Minneapolis
Minneapolis-based producer Mr. Projectile aka Matt Arnold started his mus=
ic
career with the debut release "Pug Times" on the legendary UK-based =

Toytronic label. "Pug Times" is a delightful mesh of playful melodies and=
 =

firm beats, an addictive record that perfectly fits the refined sound of =

Toytronic. Its slightly nostalgic, dreamy feel is offset by a complex yet=
 =

gentle touch of digital artifacts, and serves as a perfect example of =

forward-thinking electronic music. =


His "Nubby Buddy" EP on Parotic Music continued to build on the danceable=

ideas presented on "Pug Times," packed with warm melodies and addictive
rhythms. Its increasingly fluid sound inches closer to techno without los=
ing
the lively melodic touch that has always characterized the work of Mr.
Projectile. "The Last Summer" CD released on the Topscore label displays =
yet
another side of Mr. Projectile, with a fuller, deeper and more introspect=
ive
sound that still retains the intricate style of his other releases. Unlik=
e
many other musicians in the genre, Mr. Projectile is able to maintain his=

focus on creating memorable pieces shimmering with genuine energy and
elaborate sound. In addition, over the years Mr. Projectile has been feat=
ured
on multiple compilations from Toytronic, !K7, Benbecula, Prospect Recordi=
ngs
among others. His next full-length album will be released by Musik Aus St=
rom
and is set for release later this year.

MILES TILMANN
Toytronic / Sub:marine / Chicago
In the past few years electronic music has become increasingly complex, =

looking for the answer in the form of soulless sound design. It is =

refreshing to encounter musicians like Chicago-based Miles Tilmann that =

manage to create material that follows a very simple formula and yet =

possess unparalleled emotional strength. His career launched back in 2001=
 =

with the release of the "Underland" EP on Sub:marine records that explore=
d and
summarized the finest traditions of melodic IDM, with a likeness to the b=
est
Boards of Canada tracks with their endearing sincerity. =


In early 2003, Miles Tilmann was signed to the legendary UK label Toytron=
ic as
a part of its "3d concepts" series. On this release Miles Tilmann moved e=
ven
further along the path of emotional purity, creating a sound that is both=

humble and intimate, built upon a progression of soothing synth swells
overlaid with chilled electronic beats. His latest split release on Sub:m=
arine
as well as upcoming 10" on Consumers Research and Development continue to=

balance reflective dreamlike melodies along with firm beats. Miles Tilman=
n
manages to articulate his vision through the simplest means, becoming a
welcome change in the music world preoccupied with technique and texture.=


ADAM JOHNSON
M3rck / Minneapolis
Minneapolis-based producer Adam Johnson makes music that explores the nic=
he
between IDM and Techno, creating intense rhythmic tracks that possess sub=
tlety
and intricacy as well as fluidity and depth. Adam Johnson's first 12" on
Parotic Music was an addictive combination of Dub-infused grooves and sli=
ghtly
detuned, atonal melodies crossing the genre boundaries and creating that =
much
sought-after combination of meticulously crafted sound and danceable feel=
=2E =


In 2002, his work appeared on influential compilations from such labels a=
s
Musik Aus Strom / !k7 and Prospect Recordings, setting the stage for his =
full
length release "Chigliak" on the renowned Florida-based M3rck label.
"Chigliak" introduces more of those recognizable IDM arrhythmic textures,=
 but
still relies on well-defined heavy beats, putting a primal, physical appe=
al
into melodic IDM. The album gradually builds up speed, moving from swelli=
ng
melodic movements punctuated by intense breaks towards hypnotic deep tech=
no
offset by playful, gentle touches. The time has come to abandon strict ge=
nre
boundaries and formulaic rigidity plaguing more experimental electronic
genres. Adam Johnson leads the movement with music that combines a very
physical drive with delicacy that will please any attentive listener.

The Seven DJ=C2=92s: Columbus-based Seven DJ=C2=92s are best known for th=
eir "Seven"
webzine which has been established since 1999, and focuses on the experim=
ental
sides of electronic music, from post-industrial, noise, dark ambient to
glitch, idm, and breakcore. Besides promoting and writing about music, th=
e
"Seven" crew has played a number of DJ sets for special events around the=

states. For this installment of "Proceed," the Seven DJ=C2=92s have repar=
ed an
eclectic set of tech-noid material showcasing the many different sides of=

experimental electronic music that range from playful tunes to darker, mo=
re
aggressive sounds.

Melody Knudson: Though still up and coming, Columbus-based DJ Melody =

Knudson is no stranger to electronic music. An early supporter of =

electronic music, she has been an active member of the Columbus electroni=
c
music community since its beginning and has helped with the success of
countless events. Known for her impeccable taste and selection, Melody Kn=
udson
will be delivering the goods and laying down  experimental hip-hop, downt=
empo,
and IDM.

Thomas James: Co-founder of Columbus based and internationally renown =

Residual Recordings and veteran Columbus promoter and DJ, Thomas James wi=
ll be
providing an opening DJ set as well as interludes between the evening=C2=92=
s live
performances.

Douglas Black: Co-founder of Headroom Digital and seasoned promoter and =

DJ, Douglas Black will be working alongside Thomas James to provide and =

opening DJ set as well as interludes between the live performances.

Two screens of visuals by Jeremiah Shuff

Date:
Monday, June 30th at 5:01 Jazz Bar in Columbus / 501 N. Park St. in the =

Arena District
9pm-2am / Cover: $5 / 21 and over


DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34262-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 15:45:40 2003
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Message-ID: <FDD946902522D442A70FF2E756B1A1A032517C@xchg.uwosh.edu>
From: "Martin, Marie" <Martinm@uwosh.edu>
To: "'Ryan'" <ryry317@pobox.com>,
   "'mw-raves@hyperreal.org'"
	 <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:25:26 -0500
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Subject: RE: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

"Ownership does not and cannot mean absolute power within a rigid boundary.
This conception of property is an inaccurate and distorted picture of the
ownership rights that are at the core of a market system. It does not exist,
because absolute property rights do not exist in a society that values
individuals; property rights, like all legal rights, must be limited when
they impinge on legitimate, legally protected interests of others. Because
of the built-in tensions in the property concept, and between personal
rights and property rights, there is no built-in structure to the market
form of property."

Jospeh Singer, "Entitlement: The Paradox of Property"

Ryan, PLEASE read this again: "absolute property rights do not exist in a
society that values individuals."

Make a choice, Ryan. You can't have both.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan [mailto:ryry317@pobox.com]
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 6:40 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: "atomly" <atomly@atomly.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

>
> Not only that, but this was one of the most racist statements I've seen
> anybody make in years.  "Lashoniqwa?!?"  Yea, every person on welfare is
> a single, black mother.  Nice one, dick.

You heard the name "Lashoniqwa" and the word 'welfare" and it was _YOU_ who
assumed I was talking about a black person.  I think you need to look into
the mirror.  I guess everytime you hear 'welfare' you think of a black
person.

> Look, you can be as "rugged survivalist" as you want, but your dumb ass
> went to college (subsidized by the state), probably had loans or grants
> to go there (subsidized), went to public school before that
> (subsidized),

I have $10,000 in college loans and got NO free money as I am white and
middle class.  My parents nor I ever got freebies.  My parents paid for
childcare, while I know a few single moms that get it free.  You think they
will ever have to pay that back?  Didn't think so.  So while I _am_ paying
back a _loan_ that earned interest while I was in school and a hire rate now
that I am out.....millions of people on welfare will not give one dime back
to the government.  I just love equality!!!

>drove on roads or took public transportation to get there
> and back (state run), and are now bitching about it on the internet
> (created by the government using tax dollars).

I have paid taxes.  Most of the welfare people don't pay a dime.  They are
_consumers_.   I am a _producer_.  Do you support bans on those who don't
pay taxes from driving on the roads?  Using the internet?  Didn't think so.
So you believer certain people should be able to use things paid for by
others...but when the others bitch, you try to act like it is they who are
using the system.

> I fucking love how many people "pull themselves up by their bootstraps,"
> meaning they milk the government in their younger lives, and then grow
> up and bitch about how the government is taking all of their tax money
> to support those very same fucking programs.

Give me a break.  My parents paid _plenty_ in taxes for our school.  They
paid _plenty_ in income, gas, road, property, capital gains, etc etc. and
the only "handout" we ever got was the _ability_ to take a _loan_ from the
government for college.   When they asked for free money, they got a big
"fuck you" from the government.  I guess after paying for childcare, school
supplies, school lunches...you obviously don't have a need for free school.
But if your on welfare (and get the above free, never having to pay it
back), you are in the special class that gets totally free schooling.


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From mw-raves-return-34263-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 15:54:35 2003
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From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: "MW Raves" <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Spam-Rating: taz3.hyperreal.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N
Subject: RE: [mw] mw-politics

Is this the rebirth of mw-raves or is this what happens when you hit a
dead horse with a stick?

-t=20


-----Original Message-----
From: Casey [mailto:partykidzproductions@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:28 AM
To: prophet V; MW Raves

Stevie?


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From mw-raves-return-34264-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 16:22:45 2003
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X-USANET-Auth: 165.212.8.23    AUTO mechastudios@usa.net cmsweb06.cms.usa.net
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:22:39 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: RE: [mw] mw-politics

i'm gonna vote for the dead horse with a stick =


-sim*n

"Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com> wrote:
> Is this the rebirth of mw-raves or is this what happens when you hit a
> dead horse with a stick?
> =

> -t =

> =

> =

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Casey [mailto:partykidzproductions@yahoo.com] =

> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:28 AM
> To: prophet V; MW Raves
> =

> Stevie?
> =

> =

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> =

> =




DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34265-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 16:24:26 2003
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Message-ID: <20030624162424.40525.qmail@web12201.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:24:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [mw] Net parties...

I know on the East Coast they used to throw net
parties named after various internet programs (Mosaic
and Netscape are the only ones I know of there were
probably more).

This seems like a natural fit... www.friendster.com,
heh its not a "rave" its a friendster party :P 


-tad

ps please spare me the "welcome to last week"
responses if this is old news to you.

__________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34266-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 16:26:37 2003
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:26:29 -0500
From: Matt Hellige <matt@immute.net>
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: [mw] Net parties...

[Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>]
> I know on the East Coast they used to throw net
> parties named after various internet programs (Mosaic
> and Netscape are the only ones I know of there were
> probably more).
> 
> This seems like a natural fit... www.friendster.com,
> heh its not a "rave" its a friendster party :P 
> 
> 
> -tad
> 
> ps please spare me the "welcome to last week"
> responses if this is old news to you.
> 

Welcome to last week, dumbass.

Matt

-- 
Matt Hellige                  matt@immute.net
http://matt.immute.net

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From mw-raves-return-34267-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 16:42:34 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] Net parties...


On Tuesday, June 24, 2003, at 11:26  AM, Matt Hellige wrote:

> Welcome to last week, dumbass.
>

You forgot this:

http://www.drunkenmasters.org/drunken/lastweek.jpg


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From mw-raves-return-34268-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 16:55:21 2003
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:55:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tad Dicks <sluck604@yahoo.com>
To: JayPee <jaypee@drunkenmasters.org>, mw-raves <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] Net parties...

Sadly that deserves its self in some sort of
self-referential loop.

-tad
--- JayPee <jaypee@drunkenmasters.org> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, June 24, 2003, at 11:26  AM, Matt
> Hellige wrote:
> 
> > Welcome to last week, dumbass.
> >
> 
> You forgot this:
> 
> http://www.drunkenmasters.org/drunken/lastweek.jpg
> 
> 
>
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From mw-raves-return-34269-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 17:18:41 2003
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From: "Ryan Summers" <plasticportal@hotmail.com>
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:18:38 -0600
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Subject: [mw] raver political movement

Seems that recently most rave mailing lists have turned into semi-political 
debates.

Does this go against the assumption that the rave movement (if you want to 
call it that) is apolitical?

Does anybody really think that a group of ravers, ex-ravers, drug adicts, 
e-tards, <insert your favorite raver alias here> have the ability to assert 
themselves as a political authority?

Personally I don't think so, but then again maybe we have entered a new 
era...
Raves are dead, so what else is there to talk about?

Ryan / Plastic Portal
M&M Recordings http://www.mmrecordings.com

_________________________________________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34270-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 17:26:22 2003
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Thread-Topic: [mw] raver political movement
Thread-Index: AcM6dI2YNMNKQby3RPCWcqKvpwMn6QAAFKUw
From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: "Ryan Summers" <plasticportal@hotmail.com>,
	<mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
X-Spam-Rating: taz3.hyperreal.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N
Subject: RE: [mw] raver political movement

The inherent freedoms and TAZ-qualities of raves was destined to become
a political debate eventually (and not just one about laws).  Others may
disagree, but I don't even consider these discussions entirely off
topic.

-t

PS - what list?

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Summers [mailto:plasticportal@hotmail.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:19 PM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org

Seems that recently most rave mailing lists have turned into
semi-political debates.

Does this go against the assumption that the rave movement (if you want
to call it that) is apolitical?

Does anybody really think that a group of ravers, ex-ravers, drug
adicts, e-tards, <insert your favorite raver alias here> have the
ability to assert themselves as a political authority?

Personally I don't think so, but then again maybe we have entered a new
era...
Raves are dead, so what else is there to talk about?

Ryan / Plastic Portal
M&M Recordings http://www.mmrecordings.com

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. =20
http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/virus


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From mw-raves-return-34271-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 17:43:55 2003
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I love Friendster.  Panked invited me.  I have met alot of awesome peeps.  
Thank you Jackie!!!!  What's up Pants?  And all you other crazy MW Ravers. 
NOTE: IT'S ABOUT THE DJ....THE MIX....THE PEOPLE....NOT THE X.  RAVE ON.

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From: Jamiesweedshack@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:53:14 EDT
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MMMM, It seems to me that everyone has forgotton the meaning to a "Rave".  We 
never lost the music.  They are not taking our DJ's away.  So what if we 
can't hide in a Warehouse and dance.  X is in the clubs, it's in my bedroom, it's 
at the local bar down the road.  It's in the Hip Hop Houses.  It's everywhere 
now.  So come out of hiding.  Get a sponsored event...Call it 
UnderWater...Connected.  Call it a festival.   Let the narrow minded people come.  "If you 
build it, they will come"  Promote the music.  Promote the DJ.  There are ways 
around the system.  The rave act is for all you Warehouse dancers(don't get me 
wrong, love the scene.)  But apparently the government doesn't like the fact 
that we have to hide out and dance.   So come out of the closet......LET THE MIX 
BE HEARD!!!      tee hee, I think I smoked too much weed.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">MMMM, It seems to me that everyone has forgotton the m=
eaning to a "Rave".&nbsp; We never lost the music.&nbsp; They are not taking=
 our DJ's away.&nbsp; So what if we can't hide in a Warehouse and dance.&nbs=
p; X is in the clubs, it's in my bedroom, it's at the local bar down the roa=
d.&nbsp; It's in the Hip Hop Houses.&nbsp; It's everywhere now.&nbsp; So com=
e out of hiding.&nbsp; Get a sponsored event...Call it UnderWater...Connecte=
d.&nbsp; Call it a festival.&nbsp;&nbsp; Let the narrow minded people come.&=
nbsp; "If you build it, they will come"&nbsp; Promote the music.&nbsp; Promo=
te the DJ.&nbsp; There are ways around the system.&nbsp; The rave act is for=
 all you Warehouse dancers(don't get me wrong, love the scene.)&nbsp; But ap=
parently the government doesn't like the fact that we have to hide out and d=
ance.&nbsp;&nbsp; So come out of the closet......LET THE MIX BE HEARD!!!&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; tee hee, I think I smoked too much weed.</FONT></=
HTML>

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Subject: [mw] raver political movement
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Seems that recently most rave mailing lists have turned into semi-political 
debates.

Does this go against the assumption that the rave movement (if you want to 
call it that) is apolitical?

Does anybody really think that a group of ravers, ex-ravers, drug adicts, 
e-tards, <insert your favorite raver alias here> have the ability to assert 
themselves as a political authority?

Personally I don't think so, but then again maybe we have entered a new 
era...
Raves are dead, so what else is there to talk about?

Ryan / Plastic Portal
M&M Recordings http://www.mmrecordings.com

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.  
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From mw-raves-return-34273-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 17:58:30 2003
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yes, i agree.  you smoked too much weed.
=20
-t
=20
ps - every time you post something, you put "love shack" in my head.
damn you.  tin roof, rusted.



________________________________

From: Jamiesweedshack@aol.com [mailto:Jamiesweedshack@aol.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 PM
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org


MMMM, It seems to me that everyone has forgotton the meaning to a
"Rave".  We never lost the music.  They are not taking our DJ's away.
So what if we can't hide in a Warehouse and dance.  X is in the clubs,
it's in my bedroom, it's at the local bar down the road.  It's in the
Hip Hop Houses.  It's everywhere now.  So come out of hiding.  Get a
sponsored event...Call it UnderWater...Connected.  Call it a festival.
Let the narrow minded people come.  "If you build it, they will come"
Promote the music.  Promote the DJ.  There are ways around the system.
The rave act is for all you Warehouse dancers(don't get me wrong, love
the scene.)  But apparently the government doesn't like the fact that we
have to hide out and dance.   So come out of the closet......LET THE MIX
BE HEARD!!!      tee hee, I think I smoked too much weed.=20

------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A7A.1A6BC700--

From mw-raves-return-34274-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 18:03:05 2003
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From: Jamiesweedshack@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:02:54 EDT
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 <A HREF="http://starterupsteve.com/swf/Group_X_video.html">i just want BANGBANGBANG!</A> 

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From mw-raves-return-34275-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 21:21:18 2003
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:24:33 -0400
From: David Burgis <burgisd@comcast.net>
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Subject: [mw] raver political movement



Begin forwarded message:

> From: David Burgis <burgisd@comcast.net>
> Date: Tue Jun 24, 2003  5:23:33  PM US/Eastern
> To: Ryan Summers <plasticportal@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [mw] raver political movement
>
> On Tuesday, June 24, 2003, at 01:18  PM, Ryan Summers wrote:
>
>> Seems that recently most rave mailing lists have turned into 
>> semi-political debates.
>>
>> Does this go against the assumption that the rave movement (if you 
>> want to call it that) is apolitical?
>>
>> Does anybody really think that a group of ravers, ex-ravers, drug 
>> adicts, e-tards, <insert your favorite raver alias here> have the 
>> ability to assert themselves as a political authority?
>
> Never forget the hippies of yore... So if it can be combined with 
> about 5 other movements it _might_ just be successful.
>
>
> -----------------------------
> Dave
> http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com
> "I don't want to be part of any revolution that I can't dance to."
> --Emma Goldman
>
>
-----------------------------
Dave
http://diddlysquat.blogspot.com

"In the face of this approaching disaster, it behooves men and women 
not yet overcome by war madness to raise their voice of protest, to 
call the attention of the  people to the crime and outrage which are 
about to be perpetrated on them."

--(Emma Goldman, "Preparedness,  The Road to
Universal Slaughter," Mother Earth December 1915)


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From mw-raves-return-34276-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 21:54:43 2003
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:57:54 -0400
From: David Burgis <burgisd@comcast.net>
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Subject: [mw] Re: [kucinichmichigan] The hate America group exposed

Well, it's more black humor, ya'gotta laugh if you want to keep sane.=20
Basically that's my attitude towards Horowitz, which may or may not be=20=

smart, but it's the way I do things. Laugh, and move on, maybe work=20
with the opposition, but not take him too seriously. I laughed at=20
Sander Hicks' interview with him=20
(http://www.sanderhicks.com/articles/horowitz.html, which at the end is=20=

pretty funny actually), because it was so insane, that you had to=20
laugh. (or run away screaming at the scariness of his beliefs)



On Tuesday, June 24, 2003, at 06:35  AM, Maryann Schwenk wrote:

> David,
>
> I don't believe this is funny stuff at all.=A0 To laugh at these =
people=20
> means underestimating them.=A0=A0 We do the latter at our own peril.=A0=A0=
=20
> This is deadly serious stuff we are dealing with--fascism--and needs=20=

> to be dealt with intelligently, courageously, and relentlessly.=A0 =
This=20
> country has traveled way to far down this road in the past two years=20=

> for me, at least, to be amused by further signs of it.
>
> =A0
>
> Best wishes to you,
>
> Mary Ann Schwenk
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
>
> From: David Burgis
>
> To: kucinichmichigan@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subject: Re: [kucinichmichigan] The hate America group exposed
>
> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:50:54 -0400
>
> Oh that made my day! Funny, funny stuff. Anyone else feel like =
donating
>
> to ANSWER after reading that?
>
>
> ~Dave
>
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
>
> we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only
>
> unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American
>
> public." -- Theodore Roosevelt

-----------------------------
Dave
"I don't want to be part of any revolution that I can't dance to."
--Emma Goldman


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From mw-raves-return-34277-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 22:49:23 2003
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Subject: [mw] Re: The real Columbus Underground this week

catnap wrote:
> 
> wow.  mw-raves has come a long way (downhill)... if you guys think some
> frickin club-based commercial blowout is the hottest thing goin on around
> here... let me be the first to introduce you to the real columbus
> underground:

hey mang, i will tell everyone and their second cousin that i'm going to
the latest sashdrafer digenweed show if thats what it takes to get
people to respond with "the real deal".  been waiting for somebody to
say "hey look there's something cool going on in ohio other than the
latest foam party where everybody with a pacifier gets in free!"  i will
however state that there were an awful lot of hot things running around
the place when i was there.

...not to knock foam parties or anything, but candyravers make me plur. 
so...since i like pretty well every type of (electronic) music from
floofy eurotrance to wildstyle hardcore (but not beardstep, hells no not
beardstep), i'll take what i can get :O!  particularly if it's jungle,
dnb or (gasp!) electro, what seems like the most underrepresented local
genre.  if there's electro, post, i'll be there.  if you like electro,
check out vocode.org, thats some of the denver guys.

thanx for the info :D.  more of youse with local info about local acts
and local nights oughtta post...

btw, anybody got mp3s of sets/tracks available for preview?  always
trying to expand my ever-growing collection of mp3s, most of which are
sets/tracks by people from the 303 right now, but somebody posted a link
of some good dark, evil dnb here a while back...

-sean


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From mw-raves-return-34278-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 22:53:11 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] mw-politics

if this is what it takes to get two events posted within a day of each
other, each for different weekends (woo woo! i can check out the local
underground, and the latest sashenweed collifer party with all the hot
girls! LOL), then bring on the dead horses.  the flies seem to be
keeping to a minimum, although i suspect a few people are making heavy
use of the shift+delete keys.

-sean

Tony Sebion wrote:
> 
> Is this the rebirth of mw-raves or is this what happens when you hit a
> dead horse with a stick?
> 
> -t


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From mw-raves-return-34279-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 23:01:40 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] raver political movement

Ryan Summers wrote:
> 
> Raves are dead, so what else is there to talk about?

the latest beardstep and downtempo being played at the hippest new
martini bar in the neighborhood, judging from the last couple years in
denver/boulder(ok, soma was the only thing in boulder).  i am, btw,
being sarcastic.  raves are not dead, they're just going back where they
came from, sans noodles.

i, personally, would like to throw a rave.  unfortunately, i cannot
"throw a rave" on my own, it requires a great deal of support from
everyone who would go, as a "rave" is not actually something held in the
newest, glitzyest megaclub full of noodles trading backrubs.  from an
ideological standpoint, i dont think any one person can "throw a rave".

i guess we'd need a venue first, like somebody's barn, warehouse, large
garage, or something.  specifically, a private location, not a public
venue.

-sean


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From mw-raves-return-34280-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 23:13:44 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] raver political movement

::::::::::::::Seems that recently most rave mailing lists have turned into 
semi-political debates.

Does this go against the assumption that the rave movement (if you want to 
call it that) is apolitical?

Does anybody really think that a group of ravers, ex-ravers, drug adicts, 
e-tards, <insert your favorite raver alias here> have the ability to assert 
themselves as a political authority?

Personally I don't think so, but then again maybe we have entered a new 
era...
Raves are dead, so what else is there to talk about?:::::::::::::::::

I think this comes from the fact that Raving in and of itself is a 
sub-culture, much along the lines of the Hippy culture during the sixties 
and seventies.  The group of people that go to parties and actually are 
"ravers" will not typify themselves as mainstream...hence this political 
debate...

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From mw-raves-return-34281-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 23:20:54 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

::::::::::::And secondly, not that I necessarily disagree with you, but back 
in the 1700s, and to some measure in the 1800s, westerners thought that 
slavery was just part of humanity, and some people just deserved to have 
nothing. Now we think of it in a completely different way. Who knows? Maybe 
in 200 years people will think that the idea of total selfishness is 
outdated (though again, I seriously doubt that'll happen in 200 
years).:::::::::::::

True....but look at the basic forms of government....slavery, was not an 
institution...government is...people have been debating the forms of 
government we have know since Aristotle...yet the blind still cant get out 
of the cave....

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From mw-raves-return-34282-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 23:25:35 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

:::::::::: Or, one might say, keep the revolutionary spirit alive? I would 
make the point that the biggest problem with the French, Russian and Cuban 
revolutions is that after the revolutionaries took power, they lost their 
drive and became the status quo, thereby failing in their ultimate goals. IF 
there could be some way to keep the revolutionary drive going, then 
something good might come of it.:::::::::::::::

Ahhh yes....class struggle...the great equator of all men....your totally 
right...they did lose their drive for revolution...and in the end...they 
replaced the bourgiousie with revolutionaries who in effect became the 
bourgiousie...

If I was you, I would study Chinese Communist History...they managed to 
maintain the drive for revolution for decades...Mao Zhedong was king of 
Stalin-Leninist thought, and used it to persuade his country to do what he 
wanted...but the thing is....it ended...and now China is becoming more and 
more of a capitalist country...

I do not think of capitalism as inherently bad...its just for capitalism to 
truly work, there must be a trickle down effect....right now there 
isnt...the wealthy get more wealthy, while the poor stay poorer....

:::::::::::I'd be interested in discussing a utopian society with you at 
some point... ::::::::::

Now that would be a conversation....

It is funny, typing these emails I somehow get the picture that we are doing 
the same thing that men and women have done in the past...only it was in 
coffee houses, and small cloistered meetings....Marx anyone????

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From mw-raves-return-34283-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Tue Jun 24 23:58:15 2003
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X-USANET-Auth: 165.212.8.23    AUTO mechastudios@usa.net cmsweb06.cms.usa.net
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:58:06 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: <webmaster@deadlysystems.com>,
 <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: [mw] Re: The real Columbus Underground this week]

hey sean, here are some links to help you get in touch with what's going =
on in
Columbus, and Ohio in general.  Normally i don't plug other sites here on=

mw-raves, but the what list is pretty useless these days for finding out
what's going on in this state.

www.ravetrash.com - the home of the Ravetrash Message Board.  It is an
anything-goes underground electronic music board I run, with over 800 mem=
bers
and growing rapidly.  We have extensive listings of events in Columbus,
Cleveland, Cinci, Dayton, Toledo, Akron, Louisville, and Lexington.  Ther=
e is
also plenty of music to download in the Soundystem section.  And of cours=
e,
the most popular section, the Community board that puts the "trash" in
Ravetrash.  You will find all the info you need to go to or throw your ow=
n
parties, talk to promoters, dj's, and partykids young and old.

www.mechamix.com/hempfestmixes.html - several live sets & dj mixes from t=
he
16th Annual Columbus Hempfest, that I did a stage at 2 weeks ago.  live I=
DM,
trance, triphop, deep house, and disco house mixes by Ohio & KY artists.

www.columbusunderground.com - new website that features Columbus electron=
ic
music events & club nights

www.bluelight.nu - their USA Midwest section has listings for events all =
over
the midwest.

www.cringe.com - extensive listings of Columbus rock, reggae, and hiphop
events.

enjoy,
sim*n

"webmaster@deadlysystems.com" <webmaster@deadlysystems.com> wrote:
> catnap wrote:
> > =

> > wow.  mw-raves has come a long way (downhill)... if you guys think so=
me
> > frickin club-based commercial blowout is the hottest thing goin on ar=
ound
> > here... let me be the first to introduce you to the real columbus
> > underground:
> =

> hey mang, i will tell everyone and their second cousin that i'm going t=
o
> the latest sashdrafer digenweed show if thats what it takes to get
> people to respond with "the real deal".  been waiting for somebody to
> say "hey look there's something cool going on in ohio other than the
> latest foam party where everybody with a pacifier gets in free!"  i wil=
l
> however state that there were an awful lot of hot things running around=

> the place when i was there.
> =

> ..not to knock foam parties or anything, but candyravers make me plur. =

> so...since i like pretty well every type of (electronic) music from
> floofy eurotrance to wildstyle hardcore (but not beardstep, hells no no=
t
> beardstep), i'll take what i can get :O!  particularly if it's jungle,
> dnb or (gasp!) electro, what seems like the most underrepresented local=

> genre.  if there's electro, post, i'll be there.  if you like electro,
> check out vocode.org, thats some of the denver guys.
> =

> thanx for the info :D.  more of youse with local info about local acts
> and local nights oughtta post...
> =

> btw, anybody got mp3s of sets/tracks available for preview?  always
> trying to expand my ever-growing collection of mp3s, most of which are
> sets/tracks by people from the 303 right now, but somebody posted a lin=
k
> of some good dark, evil dnb here a while back...
> =

> -sean
> =

> =

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> =

> =




DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34284-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 00:01:22 2003
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From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
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Subject: Re: [mw] mw-politics

heheheh, or maybe you're just looking in the wrong place for event info. =
;) =

hopefully the links i posted will help with that.

peace,
sim*n

"webmaster@deadlysystems.com" <webmaster@deadlysystems.com> wrote:
> if this is what it takes to get two events posted within a day of each
> other, each for different weekends (woo woo! i can check out the local
> underground, and the latest sashenweed collifer party with all the hot
> girls! LOL), then bring on the dead horses.   =

> -sean


DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34285-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 00:10:57 2003
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From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
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 <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: Re: [mw] raver political movement

not in this city, mah man.  there's a reason Columbus, once considered th=
e
best city for raves in Ohio back in the 90's, now has less than one rave =
every
four or six months.  as the police demonstrated in 2000, if you throw a r=
ave
anywhere in Columbus, regardless of the permits you hold, you WILL be shu=
t
down.

but with all the dope ass electronic nights & admittedly damn good club
events, there is PLENTY of places to go and hear regional, national, and
international talent every week.

if you're really jonesing to get your rave on tho, there are a few happen=
ing
in Dayton & Cinci over the next few weeks.

peace,
sim*n =



"webmaster@deadlysystems.com" <webmaster@deadlysystems.com> wrote:
> i guess we'd need a venue first, like somebody's barn, warehouse, large=

> garage, or something.  specifically, a private location, not a public
> venue. =





DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34286-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 00:19:40 2003
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:19:27 -0400
From: catnap <mechastudios@usa.net>
To: "Ryan Summers" <plasticportal@hotmail.com>,
 <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: [mw] Re: [[mw] raver political movement]



"Ryan Summers" <plasticportal@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Does this go against the assumption that the rave movement =

>(if you want to call it that) is apolitical?

the rave movement is far from apolitical - the response to the original
version of the RAVE act last year showed that we can be a massive politic=
al
force when we want to.  =


recently, a group of promoters and dj's from Ohio formed EMECA - The
Electronic Music Education and Conservation Alliance.  we had already bee=
n
meeting for over a year, squashing beefs between promoters, banding toget=
her
to fight against drug dealers and drug-funded promoters, and to discuss t=
he
scene in general.  email me if you want more info on EMECA.
 =

> Personally I don't think so, but then again maybe we have entered a new=
 =

> era...
> Raves are dead, so what else is there to talk about?

I invite you to please join a lively discussion on my message board, enti=
tled,
"Promoting Electronic Music in a Post-Rave World":
http://mechamix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3D5874

this is exactly what we're addressing, with input from major ohio promote=
rs &
dj's.  check it out.

peace,
sim*n


DJ Catnap
"Columbus's Best Kept Secret"
Mecha Studios
mechastudios@usa.net



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From mw-raves-return-34287-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 01:28:04 2003
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:28:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Nelson <phossie@eds.org>
Reply-To: Jonathan Nelson <phossie@eds.org>
To: Rich G <rikishi62@hotmail.com>
cc: burgisd@comcast.net, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War


> I do not think of capitalism as inherently bad...its just for capitalism to 
> truly work, there must be a trickle down effect....right now there 
> isnt...the wealthy get more wealthy, while the poor stay poorer....

it bothers me that so many people have judged communism a failure and
capitalism a success, when in fact neither have been practiced as strictly
defined.  marxist communism has simply never happened - it's still just an
idea, a concept, a theory.  so it hasn't "failed".  and anyone claiming
that we have a nice free capitalist system here is willfully ignoring an
awful lot of evidence to the contrary.

there are many reasons why local businesses are having such a rough time,
and not all of them are related to economies of scale or expertise.  my
pet theory is that accounting is terribly broken; specifically, i mean
that distribution has confounded valuation... megacorps can undercut mom
and pop only because the actual cost is not represented in the price of
the product.  the savings that get passed on to you are high interest
loans taken out on "intangibles" like people and the environment.  

so-called conventional farming is a great example of this.  another good
one is the tall stack.

these same processes are the ones that make it really attractive to people
to stay on welfare, that prevent people from being able to raise
themselves up, that keep the middle class self-righteous but not satiated.  

those same savings are a lot bigger at the top (choose the obvious
example, please).  but because of the supposed economy of freedom, the top
easily reassigns responsibility to the bottom.  as wrong as that is, it's
right - and so we need to do something about it.

the sad part is that so many people really are dependent now, and that
makes it really difficult for them (US) to work for a better situation.  
because they're going to get hurt, and the benefits probably won't come
quite soon enough.  it doesn't help that most people seem to think that
more leisure == more happy.

> :::::::::::I'd be interested in discussing a utopian society with you at 
> some point... ::::::::::
> 
> Now that would be a conversation....

that could be another list.  :)  let me know if you start it up or find
it.

-j


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From mw-raves-return-34288-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 02:41:17 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

----- Original Message -----
From: <webmaster@deadlysystems.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]


> if youre like most "skilled" types with a
> 9-5, youre paying off student loans and your own living expenses as well
> as the living expenses for both shamiqwa and bambi and their respective
> herds of rug rats.  i resent that...i worked my ass off for 4 years of
> college to get where i am.  i do not feel an overwhelming moral need to
> devote my wages to the welfare community...it isn't "their" money.  i do
> not owe them forty acres or a mule.  at this point, they ought to be
> thanking me and everyone else in my tax bracket for supporting their
> fetus farms.

Good points.  Prepared to be called various names though.  The funny thing
about the whole tax system is this:  If we cut military and wastefull
programs such as NASA, local taxes to sports teams, etc.  _AND_ gave that
back to the people, I would proboly careless about welfare.  It is only a
very small portion of the federal waste, I mean spending.  The reason I get
so feed up with welfare trash is because I am working so damn hard at
funding programs that I will never be able to stop...so when I see someone
having it easy, I get pissed off.   I _cannot_ just go out and pop bastards.
I can't afford that.  It's not that I don't want kids, it's that I am not
ready.  More and more I feel like "What the fuck?" and that maybe I should
knock up my girlfriend.  I mean why should welfare famlies get to have a few
kids and I am somehow supposed to "do the right thing."   More and more I
figure why not.  If I want to have kids...have them.  Seems there are plenty
of people here willing to help pay for them.

> actually ryan, it's the suburban and rural "traditional" citizens that
> clamor for outlawing abortions and preventing sexual education in
> schools...which leads to stupidity and sexually transmitted diseases
> (herds of children, for example).

Give me a break.  I knew at 11 or 12 years old what sex was and what it did.
Our 'sex education' mostly was a joke because _we_ made it a joke.  People
need to _quit_ letting government do _ALL_ the teaching of their children.
One class of sex ed is _all_ that would ever be needed.  Every school around
here in Indiana (considered a bible thumping state) has handouts on AIDS,
sex, pregnacy, etc.  If a 14 year old don't know that sex causes a baby or
STDs, this country _IS_ going to trash.  That would mean that girl/guy would
have to be so stupid it's not even funny.

>  money is thrown at abstinence education, which is one of the dumbest
things ive > ever heard.  i frankly wish all religious nutballs and
abstinence advocators would > practice what they preach--the cycle of life
would weed them out.  if money were
> thrown at finding cures for stds and teaching kids responsible sexual
> practices, maybe we'd make some headway.

"Make some headway"...your dreaming.  Many schools teach HIV/AIDS.  They
teach "You have sex, you could get HIV."  I had a health class where
students could put questions in a 'mailbox.'  We learned plenty about
condoms, HIV, etc.  What did this lead too....many of my (and my brother of
2 years younger) classmates knocked up not in high school, but in their
early 20s.  Sex ed means jack shit when your drunk.  That's all their is to
it.  Almost everyone I know who got knocked up in college (which is showered
with sex education facts) were either drunk, or just to damn stupid/lazy to
put on a condom.   If college kids can't understand sex=HIV, there is no way
in hell high school kids will.

> until the middle, upper, and rural classes learn that practicing basic
> morals needs to take a back seat to a comprehensive education free from
> the sways of religion, the "welfare class" will continue producing herds
> of human larvae, ready and waiting to take a larger chunk out of someone
> else's paycheck.  your head is halfway out of your ass, my friend...keep
> pullin'...

Are you hoenstly trying to tell me black people don't know where babies come
from?  Give me a fucking break.  Kids now about sex at 12 years old.  They
know they can get knocked up.  They _don't care_.  Short of injecting kids
with drugs, they are not going to stop having sex.  Teaching them and
handing out condoms will not change the attitudes of most kids.  Partying
(ie: doing drugs, getting drunk) is where I would put my money as the main
reason we have a teen prego/STD problem in this country.  Think of it as
evolution in action. Those teens who are smart will be safe.  Those who are
stupid, will have stupid unsafe sex...then they will die off.  Evolution in
action.


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From mw-raves-return-34289-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 02:42:38 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

----- Original Message -----
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To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]


> i sense a libertarian.  not to be confused with a republican, a
> democrat, a racist, or a nutcase militia member.  am i correct?

I agree with the libs on most things.  I am all for government control of
those things which affect everyone.  Traffic laws come to mind.


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From mw-raves-return-34290-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 02:53:03 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin, Marie" <Martinm@uwosh.edu>
To: "'Ryan'" <ryry317@pobox.com>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

> Ryan, PLEASE read this again: "absolute property rights do not exist in a
> society that values individuals."
>
> Make a choice, Ryan. You can't have both.

I vote for absolute property rights.  Plus, I totally disagree with your
logic.  It's bullshit.  I value people.  I have helped out _many_ people.  I
also value my property.

Under your logic, I should just take whatever is 'yours' and it would be
totally fine to do so because it would be for the value of individuals.
This who type of logic is stupid.  If people can't gain something for their
work....they won't work.  What is better for society:

1: There is no personal property so people start saying 'fuck this studying,
I want to party'.  So there are no doctors.  Things such as the common flu
start having a 70% kill rate.

or

2: People are rewarded with the ability to have more the harder they work.
So a certain percentage work hard in school and get paid well to research
things.  They find a cure for the flu and 1 million people don't die because
of it.

So what is better?

1:  A million people die, but everything is 'fair' and we value individuals.

or

2: A small percentage get to live life easier than others, but 1 million
other people get to live.

A very large number of humans only strive for achievement because of the
money.  Why?  More money=more things.  If people could never really 'own'
their things, they wouldn't work so hard to achieve.


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From mw-raves-return-34291-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 03:42:11 2003
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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:42:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: prophet V <drdoit2ya@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [mw] WHY KING GEORGE WILL NOT GET


WHY KING GEORGE WILL NOT GET REELECTED

Just a few comments about what KING GEORGE (President 
Bush) has been doing to anger all of the voters,
including me:

1.  When he and Attorney General Ashcroft urged
Congress to
pass their version of the Patriot Act, which was
written and
ready to go BEFORE THE SEPT. 11, 2001 ATTACK, their
sole purpose was to destroy the Constitution and lay
the
ground work for a dictatorship.  EVIL!  Impeachable! 
They
both SWORE to uphold the Constitution, but the Patriot
Act is aimed at destroying and neutralizing the Bill
of
Rights.  Damned EVIL!!!

2.  King George is dictating policy to Israel, while
hundreds
of Jews are being kill by Palestinian terrorists.  He
says he
will NOT negotiate with terrorists.  Why therefore is
he 
insisting that Israel negotiate with terrorists??? 
Damned
hypocritical, to say the least!!!

3.  IF King George wants to solve the situation in
Palestine,
why doesn't he pressure the Arab countries to give up
some
of their MILLIONS of square miles of land to the
Palestinians???
Israel has less than 500 square miles of land.  Arab
countries
control more than 10 MILLION square miles.  Where is
the
fairness???  EVIL!!!

4.  It is pure evil to give gigantic tax breaks to the
rich and
nothing to the poor.  Where is the fairness???

5.  It is pure evil to prevent price controls from
being
placed on all medicine in this country!

6.  It is pure evil to all the pharmaceutical industry
and
petroleum industry to dictate policy to the Congress,
and to the President!!!  Ditto for the Council On
Foreign
Relations (CFR), the Trilateral Commission, and 
Bilderbergers!

7.  It is pure evil to allow old Americans to have to
choose
between rent, food, or medicine!  Outrageous to see
millions of old Americans living in dire poverty!

8.  It is pure evil to see MILLIONS of jobs being
exported
to foreign countries, while MILLIONS of Americans are
losing their jobs in America.  It is even more evil to
see a U.S. Government agency giving American 
companies BILLIONS of dollars to help them start 
companies in OTHER countries, so they can
high FOREIGN workers, while laying off their
former American workers.  DAMNED EVIL!!!
And King George thinks it is peachy keen to
see all of this happening.  He has done NOTHING
to stop the hemorage of jobs going overseas.
NOTHING!!!

King George, with the above in mind, has angered ALL
of the following groups:  Christian Coalition,
Patriotic
Americans, Democrats, minorities, Jews, AARP,
older Americans, unions, and so forth.  Therefore,
he has NO chance of being reelected.  He could
not even get elected dog catcher next year.  Why
then does ne need that campaign war chest of
more than $100 MILLION????   

JOHN JAY
Voice of Truth
Oxnard, CA
805-985-0273

*COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U. S.
C. Section 107, 
any copyrighted work in this message is distributed
under fair use 
without profit or payment to those who have expressed
a prior interest
in receiving the included information for nonprofit
research and educational purposes only.[Ref.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ]

To those who have taken the Oath, Remember the Oath!
To those who have not and believe in the Constitution,
Take a similar Oath now to the Constitution!
Remember that those who make laws contrary to the
Constitution,
Those who enforce laws contrary to the Constitution,
And those who give orders contrary to the
Constitution,
Have become domestic enemies of the Constitution!
It doesn't take a Judge or a lawyer to know the
difference!

"I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM) THAT I WILL SUPPORT
AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES
AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL
BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; AND THAT I
WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER
ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF
MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD." 

Fighting For Faith, Freedom and the Constitution!
Join the America First Party
http://www.americafirstparty.org

Sign the petitions for Redress of Grievances
The Petition of Redress Relating to the FEDERAL INCOME
TAX, to the Federal Reserve, to the WAR POWERS CLAUSES
and to the "USA PATRIOT ACT." 
http://www.givemeliberty.org/FreedomDrive/Redress/SignPetitions.htm

Join the We The People Congress
http://www.givemeliberty.org/donations/congress.asp

Want to be on our lists?  Write at WJPBR@AOL.COM for a
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or for copy of Declaration of Independence, Preamble
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From mw-raves-return-34292-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 05:16:59 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War

::::::::::it bothers me that so many people have judged communism a failure 
and
capitalism a success, when in fact neither have been practiced as strictly
defined.  marxist communism has simply never happened - it's still just an
idea, a concept, a theory.  so it hasn't "failed".  and anyone claiming
that we have a nice free capitalist system here is willfully ignoring an
awful lot of evidence to the contrary.:::::::::::

Ahhh....my friend, i totally agree with you...that is why PURE socialism, or 
anything PURE will never work....All forms of government, except a 
dictatorship, and even some cases of this, were originally established to 
benefit the people...but...eventually it turned to something else 
entirely...

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From mw-raves-return-34293-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 05:19:42 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] WHY KING GEORGE WILL NOT GET

::::::::::King George, with the above in mind, has angered ALL
of the following groups:  Christian Coalition,
Patriotic Americans, Democrats, minorities, Jews, AARP,
older Americans, unions, and so forth.  Therefore,
he has NO chance of being reelected.  He could
not even get elected dog catcher next year.  Why
then does ne need that campaign war chest of
more than $100 MILLION????   :::::::::

Didnt read through that propaganda...but my eyes caught on this....

I think I might be able to agree with this...except Im pretty sure that as 
of now Bush has very good numbers as far as voters are concerned.....

BUSH IN 2004!!!!!!

_________________________________________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34294-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 06:33:42 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]

> Ryan, PLEASE read this again: "absolute property rights do not exist in a
> society that values individuals."

sorry...gotta disagree...youse may hate it when i side with ryan on
this, but a society that values individuals--or rather teaches
individuals to value themselves--will also seek to establish absolute
property (intellectual and material) rights for each and every
individual in that society.  you want a lack of absolute property
rights? try something purely marxist, which would need to devalue
individuals in order to supress the human desire to put #1 first.
actually, it doesnt have to be purely marxist, but it does need to be a
small group--not a society.

-sean


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From mw-raves-return-34295-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 06:38:51 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] WHY KING GEORGE WILL NOT GET

Rich G wrote:
> 
> I think I might be able to agree with this...except Im pretty sure that as
> of now Bush has very good numbers as far as voters are concerned.....
> 
> BUSH IN 2004!!!!!!


dude, im all for bush.  that means i just gotta wait it out
another...like...6 months, and i'll be all about bush.  dang, i even
know some girls that are all for bush...kinda rare in dayton.  it's
frankly been a while since i was able to enjoy bush, but if bush is
coming around again in 2004, i'll be ready!




...oh! you're talking about the president...?  shit. i thought i was
gonna get lucky :p.

-sean


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From mw-raves-return-34296-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 06:50:12 2003
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Subject: Re: Fw: [mw] help elect a President who is against the Drug War]--this 
 should offend someone :D

Ryan and A Bunch Of Other People Wrote:
> (A Bunch
> Of Stuff)

OK! OK! OK, already! I give up! You all win!

http://carcino.gen.nz/images/image.php/463c5922/arguing.jpg

now can we get back to those music links (thanks! btw)...why is it that
mtn-raves and nw-raves live on, yet mw-raves does not? did mw-raves
cycnicise or jade itself out of existence?  did bluelight.nu (shoulda
called it purplehaze.nu) really draw that many people?  did mw-raves
just not talk enough about the drizzugs and the dizzope ass
partieeezzzzz and shiznit? is it not 1337 enough? too much 'ardcore and
not enough floofy butt trance (a relative of floofy butt rock in the
80s)?

-Sean


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From mw-raves-return-34297-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 11:52:59 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] WHY KING GEORGE WILL NOT GET


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich G" <rikishi62@hotmail.com>
To: <drdoit2ya@yahoo.com>; <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: [mw] WHY KING GEORGE WILL NOT GET


> ::::::::::King George, with the above in mind, has angered ALL
> of the following groups:  Christian Coalition,
> Patriotic Americans, Democrats, minorities, Jews, AARP,
> older Americans, unions, and so forth.  Therefore,
> he has NO chance of being reelected.  He could
> not even get elected dog catcher next year.  Why
> then does ne need that campaign war chest of
> more than $100 MILLION????   :::::::::

> I think I might be able to agree with this...except Im pretty sure that as
> of now Bush has very good numbers as far as voters are concerned.....
>
> BUSH IN 2004!!!!!!

Thing is, Bush was already hated by many of the above groups.  When it comes
down to it, the religious right will _always_ vote Republicans...even if
they had hoped someone else was on the ticket besides Bush.  If the
Democrats pull together and become middle of the road...they _might_ win.
Problem is that too many people will not vote for a rapid liberal who wants
to tax achievement and hard work (i.e.: the rich).  The day that happens is
the day rich start leaving this country just like they are fleeing Kali
because of that state's rapid progressive income tax system.  I honestly
think that if the AWB fails, so many gun rights supports will finally
vote....that Bush may win enough states to easily put him over the top.


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From mw-raves-return-34298-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Wed Jun 25 15:17:17 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] WHY KING GEORGE WILL NOT GET

> Thing is, Bush was already hated by many of the above groups.  When it comes
> down to it, the religious right will _always_ vote Republicans...even if
> they had hoped someone else was on the ticket besides Bush.  If the
> Democrats pull together and become middle of the road...they _might_ win.
> Problem is that too many people will not vote for a rapid liberal who wants
> to tax achievement and hard work (i.e.: the rich).  The day that happens is
> the day rich start leaving this country just like they are fleeing Kali
> because of that state's rapid progressive income tax system.  I honestly
> think that if the AWB fails, so many gun rights supports will finally
> vote....that Bush may win enough states to easily put him over the top.
> 

Nice one, ryan. The rich are all rich because they work hard, not
because they were born into it, or because they got lucky, or because
they happened to have celebrity skills (sports players, actors, etc), or
because they went to business school to learn how to be the CFO that
saves the company 4 million in the first year by outsourcing overseas.

I'm not saying that the rich in the US didn't work hard to be rich, but
more that the vast, vast, vast majority of the hard-working will never
have any chance of being rich.

    -Rob


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From mw-raves-return-34299-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 26 00:32:58 2003
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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:32:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Casey <partykidzproductions@yahoo.com>
To: MW Raves <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: RE: [mw] mw-politics

There are too many dead horses in the midwest.

--- Tony Sebion <tony@sebion.com> wrote:
> Is this the rebirth of mw-raves or is this what
> happens when you hit a
> dead horse with a stick?
> 
> -t 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Casey [mailto:partykidzproductions@yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:28 AM
> To: prophet V; MW Raves
> 
> Stevie?
> 
> 
>
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__________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34300-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 26 04:40:04 2003
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From: "Tony Sebion" <tony@sebion.com>
To: "Casey" <partykidzproductions@yahoo.com>,
	"MW Raves" <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
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Subject: RE: [mw] mw-politics

Them's not horses, this is wiscowskin.

Moo,
-t=20


-----Original Message-----
From: Casey [mailto:partykidzproductions@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 7:33 PM
To: MW Raves

There are too many dead horses in the midwest.

--- Tony Sebion <tony@sebion.com> wrote:
> Is this the rebirth of mw-raves or is this what happens when you hit a

> dead horse with a stick?
>=20
> -t
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Casey [mailto:partykidzproductions@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:28 AM
> To: prophet V; MW Raves
>=20
> Stevie?
>=20
>=20

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From mw-raves-return-34301-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 26 05:57:43 2003
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From: "John Busch" <jaybusch@bellsouth.net>
To: "'MW Raves'" <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:05:22 -0400
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Subject: RE: [mw] mw-politics

Well... this is cantuckee... and we gots plent-y...

Got yer herbals and yer bourbons too...

F'd up is how we're stuck cuz any other life is too boring to give a
fuck...




Yes... raves... those parties that were so new and fun... so different
and loved because they promised to unveil some secret to you... some
idea of an underground... maybe something you've never done... some love
that could be shared by the disenfranchised of all styles... too define
themselves in each other's eyes... to create themselves, one by one...

Yeah... those things... they died a long time ago...

And why are we here now? I mean on this list talking about these long
dead events... and these long dead desires to belong to a group of
unbelongers...

Because whatever your reason for going or having gone... it comes down
to one thing... you are not happy with the alternatives... the moshpit,
honytonk, or the bling bling bling...


So what is the answer?  Invest 5k in a warehouse party with some
oldschool headliners.... cross your fingers and toes... hope there are
enough local og cats that are out looking for more than ho's... ones who
might remember these beats, and still have an interest in what they
might bring... have the cheddar necessary to give you a break even?  Not
me .... not any more... been down that road to many times before... that
whole game I'm happy to be leavin... forever more.

So what is it then?

New media?

New venues?

Rock a whole new style, create a whole new crowd?

Bring it up again from the roots, destroying the conceptions of
underground?

Ok... lets try that... I game for sure... got my sampler... my
sequencer... an eighth of chronic and the fading memory of a girl...

But lets also be honest...

Without the geltabs and wafers... without the bumps and kholes, the
8balls and the papers... what motivation can we give masses to move
their asses?

Is there enough love for just being alive to make a scene live?

Not that I've see in a long damn time.  I've given what I have to give.

We defined drug culture for the 90's...  and there will never be
anything like that again... without the same bad habits... without the
fake ass friends...

Escapism, fantasy, self indulgence and narcissism. All elements that
drove us before...  do we really want to have them drive us again? 

Do they drive you now?

What drives you up or turns your ass out?

Fresh rhymes over a tight beat?

808s and 909s breaking beats for a choir of 303s?

is it how you felt when you first showed up... or how you felt when
leaving as a series of goodbyes occupied too much time?


was it all the new peeps?

What the fuck does everyone want now?

If it's nobler than money, fame, sex, and drugs... what is it then, lets
not front?

Aural enlightenment?

Does kazaa not suffice?

Social engagement?

Your local tavern not so nice?



Belonging to an "underground" as a matter of personal identity?

More of a likely reason, but is that a reason you like?  Identity crisis
or an excuse to not be shy?

 
What the fuck did we do then and why did we do it?
What the fuck do we want now and how do we get to it?

Ok... my intoxicated babble is at an end... too many vodka tonics to
make much more sense... so anyone who ventured this far... much love
from me... and thanks again...


J

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Sebion [mailto:tony@sebion.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 12:39 AM
To: Casey; MW Raves
Subject: RE: [mw] mw-politics

Them's not horses, this is wiscowskin.

Moo,
-t 


-----Original Message-----
From: Casey [mailto:partykidzproductions@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 7:33 PM
To: MW Raves

There are too many dead horses in the midwest.

--- Tony Sebion <tony@sebion.com> wrote:
> Is this the rebirth of mw-raves or is this what happens when you hit a

> dead horse with a stick?
> 
> -t
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Casey [mailto:partykidzproductions@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:28 AM
> To: prophet V; MW Raves
> 
> Stevie?
> 
> 

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From mw-raves-return-34302-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 26 13:38:52 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] mw-politics


On Thursday, June 26, 2003, at 01:05  AM, John Busch wrote:

>
> So what is it then?
>
> New media?
>
> New venues?

Take a page from the history of the hippies.  I'm sure they felt the  
same way when their "scene" died/was destroyed.  All we have to do is  
wait 20 years until our kids are all growed up and then start throwing  
raves again.  It'll be retro and we'll become filthy stinking rich.   
We'll also be able to hang with all the fresh young  hotties and get  
mad play.  *bling*  They'll want to hear tales of what it was like back  
in the day.

I suggest going to Europe.. they still do shit there.  Plus, there's  
the side benefit of the fact that it's more of a permanant, on-going  
thing that evolves,  not your typical American fad, doomed to a  
pathetic end, complete with misty-eyed tales to anyone younger about  
"how it used to be"..

The party will live on.. it's just different.  It usually involves a  
lot of alcohol and crying.  *sob*

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---------------------------
"You must always be intoxicated. It is the key to all: the one  
question. In order not to feel the horrible burden of Time breaking
your back and bending you toward the earth, you must become drunk,  
without truce.  But on what? On wine, poetry, or virtue,
as you wish. But you must become drunk."
												-Baudelaire
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---------------------------
JayPee
DrunkenMasters
Audio, Visual, and Technical Annihilationists
ICQ:  21427740      -     AIM: JAYdrunkenPEE


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From mw-raves-return-34303-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 26 17:04:53 2003
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Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:04:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Casey <partykidzproductions@yahoo.com>
To: Jonathan Nelson <phossie@eds.org>, mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: Re: [mw] where OT means on-topic

http://detroitluv.com/

--- Jonathan Nelson <phossie@eds.org> wrote:
> 
> i've recently made an eight month move from sf to
> toledo by way of
> vermont.  severe symptoms of d'n'b withdrawal
> persist.  recommendations?  
> closer is better (detroit?) but anything helps.
> 
> -j
> 
> 
>
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From mw-raves-return-34304-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 26 19:19:13 2003
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Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:20:50 -0400
From: David Burgis <burgisd@comcast.net>
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To: prophet V <drdoit2ya@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [mw] WHY KING GEORGE WILL NOT GET

The thing is, sure he's hated by all those people, but he's liked by 
the top 1% for his contributions, so he'll have a massive amount of 
cash, and the Democrats will just nominate some middle of the 
road/right wing puppet like Dean/Kerry/Lieberman and will turn off all 
the liberals. And the Greens and Socialists will be ignored by the 
mainstream media that supports the 2 parties, so they'll continue to 
not be a force. I see 2004 as an unbelievably low voter turnout year, 
I'm thinking less than 100 million.

Oh, and it doesn't really matter if he's elected or not, Bush'll just 
assume office like last time. (now how's that for the start of a flame 
war!?)

-----------------------------
Dave
"I don't want to be part of any revolution that I can't dance to."
--Emma Goldman


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From mw-raves-return-34305-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 26 19:22:56 2003
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From: "Ryan Summers" <plasticportal@hotmail.com>
To: burgisd@comcast.net, drdoit2ya@yahoo.com
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Subject: Re: [mw] WHY KING GEORGE WILL NOT GET

>Oh, and it doesn't really matter if he's elected or not, Bush'll just 
>assume office like last time.

Yup.

I think what will really wake people up is when he either exends the 2-term 
limit or just appoints his brother Jeb or some other neocon as president in 
2008.

Long live the king...

Ryan / Plastic Portal
M&M Recordings http://www.mmrecordings.com

_________________________________________________________________
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From mw-raves-return-34306-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 26 19:33:15 2003
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Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:34:36 -0400
From: David Burgis <burgisd@comcast.net>
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Subject: Re: [mw] WHY KING GEORGE WILL NOT GET


On Wednesday, June 25, 2003, at 07:59  AM, Ryan wrote:
> Thing is, Bush was already hated by many of the above groups.  When it 
> comes
> down to it, the religious right will _always_ vote Republicans...even 
> if
> they had hoped someone else was on the ticket besides Bush.  If the
> Democrats pull together and become middle of the road...they _might_ 
> win.
> Problem is that too many people will not vote for a rapid liberal who 
> wants
> to tax achievement and hard work (i.e.: the rich).  The day that 
> happens is
> the day rich start leaving this country just like they are fleeing Kali
> because of that state's rapid progressive income tax system.  I 
> honestly
> think that if the AWB fails, so many gun rights supports will finally
> vote....that Bush may win enough states to easily put him over the top.

I'd argue that the Democrats have no chance at all if they run a 
blatantly moderate candidate. After all, if they're exactly the same as 
Bush, just with a few small economic differences, then why would anyone 
vote for them instead of Bush, who's actually likely to win? I'd say 
that if the Democrats nominate either Lieberman, Edwards, Graham, 
Kerry, or Gephardt, they'll lose. By a lot.

If they nominate Dean... well he ought to appeal to the corporate 
sponsors because of the fact that he's just as moderate as the others, 
and he should appeal to the voting liberals who buy the mass media 
assertion that he's liberal, and that combination might be enough to 
just barely put him over the top. In fact I'd say that he's the 
Democrats best bet at beating Bush, though I'd hate to have him be the 
president. If he was nominated, I'd say the vote count would probably 
be around 48.9% for Dean, and 48.8999% for Bush. (Don't you just love 
pulling numbers out of your ass? you can say whatever you want. It's 
great!)

(and of course, in a better world, Kucinich/Sharpton/Mosely-Braun would 
be nominated, but as long as the DLC is around they won't. If Kucinich 
got the nomination, I seriously think that as long as he had enough 
cash, he could win... however, he won't win, so it doesn't really 
matter)

-----------------------------
Dave
"I don't want to be part of any revolution that I can't dance to."
--Emma Goldman


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From mw-raves-return-34307-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Thu Jun 26 19:35:27 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] WHY KING GEORGE WILL NOT GET


On Thursday, June 26, 2003, at 03:22  PM, Ryan Summers wrote:

>> Oh, and it doesn't really matter if he's elected or not, Bush'll just 
>> assume office like last time.
>
> Yup.
>
> I think what will really wake people up is when he either exends the 
> 2-term limit or just appoints his brother Jeb or some other neocon as 
> president in 2008.

Well, y'know. It'll be in the interests of National Security.

  Somehow.

-----------------------------
Dave
"I don't want to be part of any revolution that I can't dance to."
--Emma Goldman


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From mw-raves-return-34308-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 27 01:15:12 2003
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From: "Jen303" <jen303@socket.net>
To: <Jamiesweedshack@aol.com>, <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
References: <a4.393cf737.2c29e7cf@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:01:51 -0500
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Subject: Re: [mw] net parties....

I'd be interested in checking out some of your profiles on there.  My
username is: Jen303


----- Original Message -----
From: <Jamiesweedshack@aol.com>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:43 PM
Subject: [mw] net parties....


> I love Friendster.  Panked invited me.  I have met alot of awesome peeps.
> Thank you Jackie!!!!  What's up Pants?  And all you other crazy MW Ravers.
> NOTE: IT'S ABOUT THE DJ....THE MIX....THE PEOPLE....NOT THE X.  RAVE ON.
>


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From mw-raves-return-34309-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 27 01:36:56 2003
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From: JWeedShack@aol.com
Message-ID: <137.21b7d824.2c2cf9ae@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:36:46 EDT
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: [mw] Net Parties

--part1_137.21b7d824.2c2cf9ae_boundary
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Hey no problem.  Email me sometime on Friendster or whatever and I'll chat 
with ya or what not.  My SN name at home is JWeedShack@aol.com  and at work it 
is Jamiesweedshack@aol.com.  I'm usually on one or the other.  Hope to talk 
with you soon.  Keep the chain o friends going.  tee hee.

Jamie

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From mw-raves-return-34310-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Fri Jun 27 22:47:32 2003
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Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:47:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: prophet V <drdoit2ya@yahoo.com>
To: mw-raves@hyperreal.org
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Subject: [mw] tues July 1st Chicago electrostash

tuesday july 1st LIVE @
Abbey's PUB - Chicago, USA

Electroclash Tour
featuring

WIT, Larry Tee
and a special performance
by 
Superstars Of Love's All Time High Experience

http://www.superstarsoflove.com

SIN-STATION
foxy ladies nites are
every wednesday nite at Watusi.
featuring disc jocks Dr. Lovestar, 
Ryan Paradise + special guests.
10pm till 2am 
never a cover- always a lover.
Watusi is on the corner of Ashland and North Ave.
tune in, turn on, rock out...

__________________________________
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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From mw-raves-return-34311-mw-raves-archive=hyperreal.org@hyperreal.org Sat Jun 28 04:19:57 2003
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Subject: Re: [mw] WHY KING GEORGE WILL NOT GET


----- Original Message -----
From: "rbgrn" <rbgrn@rbgrn.net>
To: <mw-raves@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [mw] WHY KING GEORGE WILL NOT GET


> I'm not saying that the rich in the US didn't work hard to be rich, but
> more that the vast, vast, vast majority of the hard-working will never
> have any chance of being rich.

Well, if they keep blowing money...they won't be rich.  When they keep
eating lunch out they won't have money.  When they just have to have a "new"
home in the "upper class" neighborhood strapping themselves to a mortgage
that drains monthly income, they won't have money.  When people just have to
shop at the 'in' shops and blow $40 on a pair of jeans, they won't have
money.  When they spend money on the 'newest' cell phone, DVD player, HDTV,
etc., they won't have money.  When they would rather throw away their money
on rent than live under Mom and Dad's rules so they can save money to buy a
small home, they won't ever get an edge.

There are _many_ reasons why people who won't have money won't.  A lot of it
is caused by that person.  The degree they choose, the way the spend their
money, etc..


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